SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28
  1. #1
    SitePoint Addict Hajduk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    357
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Question To Ruby or not to Ruby?

    Ok I stumbled on a website that uses Ruby: http://www.metak.com/
    And was like wow, nice, slik, pretty fast as well.

    I run many sites and 1 of them is a genealogical site. We currently use a php & mysql driven application for people to search that database.

    Now I was wondering what the pro's and con's are for this Ruby. The good thing is no need to refresh the page or to go to a new page. We also use a members system on that page and include 3rd party script through a php include option, so the question is as well if that is possible.

    How easy is it to use, modify Ruby scripts? Does it put more strain on the site then e.g. PHP? Or should I stick with PHP? I can still keep MySQL I just read which is good.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Guru Majglow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    B-Town
    Posts
    645
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If it's already coded, why recode everything just to use the "hot technology." As for speed, it's not really an issue unless you are writing google or something. The quality of the programming is way more important than the Ruby vs. PHP question.
    Ohai!

  3. #3
    SitePoint Addict Hajduk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    357
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The script we have now needs to be recoded anyways. I just want to know why I should use it.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Guru Majglow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    B-Town
    Posts
    645
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk
    The script we have now needs to be recoded anyways. I just want to know why I should use it.
    Well, I personally will (try) not use PHP again unless it's for a 20 line quick hack
    Ohai!

  5. #5
    SitePoint Guru silver trophy Luke Redpath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    794
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The "not reloading the page" feature is something called AJAX and it is platform agnostic.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Addict Hajduk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    357
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No complete makeover and adding more functions.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    56
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  8. #8
    Web developer Carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't recommend switching form PHP to Ruby but have Ruby as an alternative to PHP when you start something new. What you are seeing is probably Ruby on Rails which is not the same thing. If you want to get AJAX the you might want to go with one of the popular PHP frameworks that include AJAX like CakePHP

  9. #9
    SitePoint Addict Hajduk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    357
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yea I am aware of the AJAX, I am not just kicking on that. But would love to have something that can handle major traffic, easy to maintain and ready for the future. nice to read that other post. I think I will do something like this. Though I am not gonna switch the whole site to Ruby just the surname database. For forums e.g. I use Phorum and that is a A++ piece software.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Los Angeles
    Posts
    706
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The last time I thought about using Ruby I found that it had serious performance problems (admitly I didn't try very hard either), since performance was mentioned I was curious if anybody had any good information on Ruby's performance etc.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    124
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Snaily, see for yourself. Django (Python) is faster then Rails (Ruby) which is faster then Symfony (PHP).

  12. #12
    SitePoint Addict Hajduk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    357
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So Ruby is faster then PHP but not faster then Python?
    Ok let me rephrase the question: Why should I use Ruby?
    I just read somewhere else that the syntax is horrible? IS Ruby a competitor or not?

  13. #13
    SitePoint Guru silver trophy Luke Redpath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    794
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk
    I just read somewhere else that the syntax is horrible? IS Ruby a competitor or not?
    Why don't you learn some Ruby basics and see for yourself. Most Ruby fans will say its syntax is one of its main strengths.

    http://www.rubycentral.com/book/

  14. #14
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    124
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ruby is slower then PHP, Rails (Ruby) is faster then Symfony (PHP based Rails clone.). Rails is here to stay, assuming you know your rear end from a hole in the ground Rails will be able to stand up to whatever it is that you'd like to throw at it. 43things is a Rails application serving 3.5 million pages per day.

  15. #15
    Put your best practices away. The New Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,087
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk
    How easy is it to use, modify Ruby scripts? Does it put more strain on the site then e.g. PHP? Or should I stick with PHP? I can still keep MySQL I just read which is good.
    No offence, but this part of your post bothers me. Ruby is not for the faint of heart. It is a significant leap in design over PHP. If your website is just a mash of different PHP scripts slightly edited by you. I think perhaps using Ruby with or without Rails may not be right for you at this time. I suggest you finish your programming education with PHP and move to Ruby when you feel it is right.

    In terms of the pros and cons. Ruby is slower then most scripting languages and has maintaince and configuration annoyances when setuping up a web server. The pros are that is scales just as well as anything else, and great duck taping which allows it to interact with alot of other applications PHP could never do. It also has a great support community and of course Rails is a industry leading web framework.

    Bottom line, if your happy with your setup, I think Ruby will cause unnessary head aches. But by all means play with it, but reserve your decision for a while.

    Hope that helps
    "A nerd who gets contacts
    and a trendy hair cut is still a nerd"

    - Stephen Colbert on Apple Users

  16. #16
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No offense, but part of YOUR post bothers me.

    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy
    No offence, but this part of your post bothers me. Ruby is not for the faint of heart. It is a significant leap in design over PHP.
    Ruby is no more difficult that PHP, it's just a language, in fact having a more unified object model, and standard library that's more than just a mass of oddly named functions that wrap the native C functions makes it quite a bit easier in my opinion. What you probably mean is "Rails is a significant design leap over PHP".
    If your website is just a mash of different PHP scripts slightly edited by you. I think perhaps using Ruby with or without Rails may not be right for you at this time. I suggest you finish your programming education with PHP and move to Ruby when you feel it is right.
    If you're serious about learning programming, then PHP is probably NOT a good place to start as it has some serious design comprimises.
    In terms of the pros and cons. Ruby is slower then most scripting languages and has maintaince and configuration annoyances when setuping up a web server.
    Again, you appear to be talking about the Rails application framework, not so much the Ruby language itself. This IS a significant distinction, and something to try to keep clear. Ruby was around long before Rails, and will be around regardless of what happens with Rails.
    The pros are that is scales just as well as anything else, and great duck taping which allows it to interact with alot of other applications PHP could never do.
    What is duck taping? Or did you mean Duck Typing? And if you did, then what does it have to do with interacting with other applications? I don't mean to be a jerk, but if you're going to be making recommendations to other people regarding Ruby and Rails, it might be a good idea to clarify a few things, and make sure you have a good understanding about what you're talking about.

    Hope that helps.

  17. #17
    Put your best practices away. The New Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,087
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgarissta
    No offense, but part of YOUR post bothers me.
    Thats cool. If I offended you I am sorry. I was just getting up when I wrote this so I might have come off badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgarissta
    Ruby is no more difficult that PHP, it's just a language, in fact having a more unified object model, and standard library that's more than just a mass of oddly named functions that wrap the native C functions makes it quite a bit easier in my opinion. What you probably mean is "Rails is a significant design leap over PHP".
    Thats true, however, I quoted a specific part of this post for a reason. It seemed to me that he wasn't doing those advanced things. Such as OOP. It seemed like he was just using scripts (almost never written in OOP) and just editing them as required. To go from this (which is good enough to write PHP) to a fully OO language like Ruby is to me a huge jump. So, no I wasn't talking about Rails.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgarissta
    If you're serious about learning programming, then PHP is probably NOT a good place to start as it has some serious design comprimises.
    I agree. But, the question is does the orginal poster want to do "serious design"? That is what I hinting at and that is something only he/she can awnser.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgarissta
    Again, you appear to be talking about the Rails application framework, not so much the Ruby language itself. This IS a significant distinction, and something to try to keep clear. Ruby was around long before Rails, and will be around regardless of what happens with Rails.
    I am totally on board with you on seperating Ruby from Rails. However, I was indeed talking about Ruby. I have (as a learning exercise) setup up ruby with my own rudamentory web app without Rails or any other Ruby framework, and I found the server setup difficult. However, as I mentioned, in theory, once it is good to go it scales as well as any other setup. Thats why I only referred to it as a annoyance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgarissta
    What is duck taping? Or did you mean Duck Typing? And if you did, then what does it have to do with interacting with other applications? I don't mean to be a jerk, but if you're going to be making recommendations to other people regarding Ruby and Rails, it might be a good idea to clarify a few things, and make sure you have a good understanding about what you're talking about.
    I ment Duck Taping in the sense that I can communicate with other applications in a much easier fashion than PHP (if at all). Of course many other langauges have this aswell, but I was comparing it to PHP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgarissta
    Hope that helps.
    It did thanks
    "A nerd who gets contacts
    and a trendy hair cut is still a nerd"

    - Stephen Colbert on Apple Users

  18. #18
    SitePoint Addict Hajduk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    357
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Uhm, actually I want to do sirious design as a genealogical database is sirious enough. I just let up a baloon to see if there are experienced people out there that run applications on RoR to see what their experience is.

    Who told you I was mashing things???? I don't recall ever saying anything like that. Yes the script I made myself with PHP, but because of a lot of reasons which I am not gonna mention here I am interested to see if its a good thing to use RoR for a high profile genealogical database? And why should I finish my PHP education?

    The question is like this. Will RoR let me run this "new" script that I plan and will it last? I am looking for durable solutions and not popular ones!

  19. #19
    eschew sesquipedalians silver trophy sweatje's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    3,749
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy
    I ment Duck Taping in the sense that I can communicate with other applications in a much easier fashion than PHP (if at all).
    That would be Duct Taping, unless you are kidnapping a Duck
    Jason Sweat ZCE - jsweat_php@yahoo.com
    Book: PHP Patterns
    Good Stuff: SimpleTest PHPUnit FireFox ADOdb YUI
    Detestable (adjective): software that isn't testable.

  20. #20
    Put your best practices away. The New Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,087
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sweatje
    That would be Duct Taping, unless you are kidnapping a Duck
    Still waiting for a ransom. Apparently he lays golden eggs. Or was that a goose... DOH!
    "A nerd who gets contacts
    and a trendy hair cut is still a nerd"

    - Stephen Colbert on Apple Users

  21. #21
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk
    Ok I stumbled on a website that uses Ruby: http://www.metak.com/
    And was like wow, nice, slik, pretty fast as well.

    I run many sites and 1 of them is a genealogical site. We currently use a php & mysql driven application for people to search that database.

    Now I was wondering what the pro's and con's are for this Ruby. The good thing is no need to refresh the page or to go to a new page. We also use a members system on that page and include 3rd party script through a php include option, so the question is as well if that is possible.

    How easy is it to use, modify Ruby scripts? Does it put more strain on the site then e.g. PHP? Or should I stick with PHP? I can still keep MySQL I just read which is good.
    Sorry Haj, but i havn't seen a single valid point here for changing from PHP to RoR.

    IMHO - if it's not syntactically C-Based then it's retarted (no offense to anyone).

    RoR wouldn't give any significant speed improvements over PHP either...If one we're to aim for speed, we'd have to use C++ :P. Or Assembly .
    Last edited by skoe; Jul 31, 2006 at 15:14.

  22. #22
    SitePoint Guru silver trophy Luke Redpath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    794
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thats a...strange post

  23. #23
    Mlle. Ledoyen silver trophy seanf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    7,168
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by skoe
    RoR wouldn't give any significant speed improvements over PHP either...
    Application development is significantly faster in Rails. Who cares if ruby is a few milliseconds slower than PHP?

    Sean
    Harry Potter

    -- You lived inside my world so softly
    -- Protected only by the kindness of your nature

  24. #24
    SitePoint Addict Hajduk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    357
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Skoe, presume with P you mean Python?

    Who can give me an example of a high profile site that runs RoR?

  25. #25
    Mlle. Ledoyen silver trophy seanf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    7,168
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk
    Who can give me an example of a high profile site that runs RoR?
    http://www.basecamphq.com/

    Sean
    Harry Potter

    -- You lived inside my world so softly
    -- Protected only by the kindness of your nature


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •