Talk with the Experts this week was timely. We were lucky enough to spend an hour in the chatroom with Peter Bakacs, the design genius behind the newly relaunched SitePoint. The session was a busy one and poor Peter was slammed with questions but managed to hold his own and impart some interesting tidbits of information.
If you missed the session because you didn’t know about it, you can sign up for email notifications of future sessions here.
Next week we’ll be talking Social Media with Richenda Vermeulen at 2:30pm PDT on Wed 28 August.
And now for those of you that want to find out exactly what went down this morning, here is the full transcript:
[22:02] <HAWK> So, you no doubt know that our expert today is PeterBakacs and he is the legend responsible for the redesign of SitePoint
[22:02] <HAWK> The session today was originally going to be a generic one on UI Design
[22:02] <PeterBakacs> Helllo everyone :)
[22:02] <HAWK> But then the timing was prudent so I figured it might be more interesting to discuss the redesign process
[22:02] <HAWK> But you can take your pick
[22:03] <PeterBakacs> Nice to be here
[22:03] <HAWK> I imagine this session will get busy, so if I was you I’d jump in with a question fast ;)
[22:03] <PeterBakacs> Fire away
[22:03] <ralphm> Peter, what was your brief for this redesign?
[22:04] <PeterBakacs> “Let’s do something different”
[22:04] <PeterBakacs> a brief brief
[22:05] <HAWK> Correct me if I’m wrong here Pete, but I think we were really keen to get away from the traditional WP blog look that we’ve had for years
[22:05] <johnlacey> It’s clearly optimized for mobile devices… few graphics, and use of SVGs, etc. Did you use a “mobile first” approach?
[22:05] <ralphm> So how did you approach the redesign, based on that? Where do you start?
[22:05] <size> yeah, seems a bit brief
[22:06] <PeterBakacs> We were always thinking that we need this new site to be across all devices
[22:08] <PeterBakacs> We wanted the articles to be at the forefront of the site
[22:09] <HAWK> What would you say to the people that think we’ve compromised design for responsiveness PeterBakacs?
[22:10] <SizzleMonkey> IMHO responsiveness trumps design every time, unless the two can go hand in hand….
[22:11] <PeterBakacs> The design from the beginning was always focussed on mobile
[22:11] <PeterBakacs> That’s how the homepage menu came about, it was originally for mobile but we liked how it translated to desktop
[22:12] <PeterBakacs> It’s been a controversial issue
[22:12] <HAWK> Because it polarises people you mean?
[22:12] <ralphm> It’s also nice to have consistency on both types of platform.
[22:12] <size> SizzleMonkey isn’t responsive just part of design,
[22:12] <johnlacey> Was there any particular logic behind the colours assigned to each category (HTML, CSS, JS, PHP etc.)?
[22:13] <PeterBakacs> we wanted consistency
[22:13] <SizzleMonkey> In a perfect world, but many “designers” go for look and not necessarily function….
[22:14] <HAWK> PeterBakacs – maybe you could go back to Ralph’s question about how you approached the redesign given the very brief brief. Where did you start?
[22:15] <HAWK> Welcome to those of you that have just joined. We’re currently talking about how Peter approached the SitePoint redesign, given that the brief was “we want something different”
[22:15] <HAWK> We’re also discussing the ‘design vs responsiveness’ issue
[22:15] <size> they are not designers then and as you say “designers” :)
[22:15] <PeterBakacs> Well I was pretty much given free reign on the design
[22:16] <mel> how to make a design
[22:16] <PeterBakacs> It was a major challenge, I was a little intimidated
[22:17] <HAWK> Understandably! Esp given our audience.
[22:17] <PeterBakacs> Indeed
[22:17] <size> why did you loose the individual branding of the topic or are they channels?
[22:17] <HAWK> So you started with the menu… how did you establish the colours (from johnlacey ‘ Was there any particular logic behind the colours assigned to each category (HTML, CSS, JS, PHP etc.)? )
[22:18] <johnlacey> I mean, Ruby Red seems fairly obvious… but the others perhaps less so. lol
[22:18] <mel> ok
[22:18] <HAWK> What do you mean by the individual branding of the topics, size?
[22:19] <johnlacey> Things like Design Festival etc. going back to just being part of Sitepoint itself.
[22:19] <JesseGilbride> i’m not aware of what was involved. oh my, I just looked and it’s quite different! I can see how Peter put HTML,CSS,JS first, as they are foundations of front-end, and UX, Mobile at the end, as they should be grouped. I bet the colors simply needed to be sufficiently contasting. am I right?
[22:19] <johnlacey> (I presume that’s what Size means.)
[22:19] <PeterBakacs> The colours are from the topics, php is purple, html5 orange, etc,
[22:19] <size> the old ruby source, or mobile ?? php master etc
[22:19] <size> and logos that went with that
[22:19] <PeterBakacs> It was a lot of googling images
[22:19] <PeterBakacs> of these channels
[22:20] <johnlacey> Cool Peter.
[22:20] <HAWK> size That was a decision that had nothing to do with this redesign – pulling those sites back in was a business decision
[22:20] <size> yes design festival too
[22:20] <HAWK> Ditto answer
[22:20] <HAWK> It just made sense to do it all at the same time while we were relaunching anyway
[22:21] <PeterBakacs> It was also a challenge to layout 8 colours next to each other
[22:21] <mel> this my first time to ask here to good designer to help me
[22:21] <size> possible a google seo decision, but you could have kept the topics individually branded
[22:21] <PeterBakacs> Its amazing how many comments we’ve had concerning the navigation
[22:22] <johnlacey> Do you use any particular tools to help you prototype designs PeterBakacs ?
[22:22] <HAWK> For what reason size?
[22:22] <ralphm> I prefer having all that content under one roof. Makes it an extra challenge to keep it all organised, though. I really like the way the site content is organised. It’s easy to find, thanks to the way you’ve done the design. That must take some UI knowhow.
[22:23] <JesseGilbride> [ “size” as a screenname is AWFULLY confusing ;) ]
[22:23] <PeterBakacs> Honestly, I use a very basic set of tools, pencil, paper, Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop
[22:23] <HAWK> hehe, agreed JesseGilbride
[22:23] <size> can i change it then?
[22:23] <JesseGilbride> you can, ‘size’
[22:23] <JesseGilbride> click your name at the left/bottom
[22:23] <PeterBakacs> I have tried a few different wire framing tools, but feel comfortable with illustrator
[22:24] <Nora> I don’t think that the “responsive” in Responsive Design should happen on the client side unless the client requests it. I really appreciate being able to access a website on my handheld, but I cannot stand how a “responsive” website changes when I resize my browser window on my desktop/laptop. What are your thoughts on that?
[22:24] <PeterBakacs> ah interesting Nora
[22:25] <size> i think having the fun aspect on ruby source, design festival would have added more personality to the design design
[22:25] <HAWK> Fair call :)
[22:25] <JesseGilbride> Nora, you must have a really small viewport(?)
[22:25] <PeterBakacs> Honestly whenever I stumble on a new site I always resize my browser to see if it’s responsive
[22:26] <johnlacey> Me too. lol
[22:26] <PeterBakacs> its a sickness
[22:26] <PeterBakacs> lol
[22:26] <JesseGilbride> me too ;)
[22:26] <PeterBakacs> ha ha I’m not alone on that one
[22:26] <Nora> @JesseGilbride what do you mean?
[22:26] <SizzleMonkey> I have a question for Peter and possibly Hawk
[22:26] <ralphm> Nora, I love to be able to change the browser size to get a different view. If I need the window smaller, everything adjusts, instead of half the page being off screen. Sometimes, for each of reading, I like to squeeze things down to a narrower column.
[22:27] <SizzleMonkey> I concur Ralphm
[22:28] <SizzleMonkey> Peter, why did you not keep the front page navigation throughout the site?
[22:28] <scruggs> I think that responsive design is just a byproduct of good design skills. If the CSS is done properly, then it should just auto-fit the browser of whatever device the visitor is on.
[22:28] <johnlacey> I usually have several browser windows open and sharing some percentage of the screen. (Usually watching tutorial videos and playing games, if I’m being honest.) I really appreciate responsive sites for this reason.
[22:28] <JesseGilbride> Nora, except for some tablets with lots of pixels, most monitors have a viewport width big enough to accommodate the ‘desktop’ mediaquery size, which is a debatable #pixels
[22:28] <PeterBakacs> We wanted to create a Responsive site, I think it’s a difficult task, we had an amazing dev team onboard
[22:28] <DavidNYC> HAWK PeterBakacs I’m just joining so if it’s been covered already, tell me to see the transcript :) But wondering PeterBakacs’ thoughts on Boostrap 3’s “mobile first” claim (just the grids being stacked by default, AFAICT)? IMO, frameworks are implicitly not “mobile first” due to all that “kitchen sink” stuff they bake in.
[22:29] <SizzleMonkey> Good point Scruggs
[22:29] <HAWK> Good question DavidNYC
[22:29] <PeterBakacs> Woah DavidNYC
[22:29] <DavidNYC> So they have some use (frameworks like Bootstrap et al) but used wholesale, when going “mobile first”, they seem excessive… thoughts?
[22:29] <DavidNYC> heh
[22:29] <HAWK> As an aside, for anyone that was wondering, the framework we used for the new site is Foundation by Zurb
[22:29] * Faraba (4ead54de@localhost) has joined #sitepoint
[22:29] <PeterBakacs> thanks hawk
[22:30] <HAWK> np
[22:30] <DavidNYC> Foundation is another one :) Great tool, but truly “mobile first”? I am not sure…
[22:31] <PeterBakacs> Hey guys just a heads up, I dabble in a little bit of CSS and HTML, not heavy on the tech front
[22:31] <JesseGilbride> i’ve had a couple clients ask about foundation. i looked into it and it seems pretty good.
[22:31] <JesseGilbride> i’m a bootstrap fan, myself, for the time being
[22:31] <lorio> The backend is rails?
[22:31] <HAWK> It’s WordPress lorio!
[22:32] <kylevermeulen> learnable.com is on bootstrap
[22:32] <HAWK> Learnable is rails
[22:32] <lorio> Oh Ok thanks
[22:32] <SizzleMonkey> SAY WHAT?
[22:32] <PeterBakacs> lol
[22:32] <HAWK> Yup, you can actually do cool stuff with WordPress!
[22:32] <johnlacey> WordPress is great.
[22:32] <SizzleMonkey> DAYUM!
[22:32] <HAWK> Makes it easy for those of us that write to it
[22:33] <SD> HAWK.. How well does WordPress scale? I have used it in some projects, but would be cautious to use it on a high-traffic site, like this one.
[22:33] <PeterBakacs> Yes I was quite impressed that our site is on WordPress
[22:34] <HAWK> WordPress scales pretty well but not out of the box
[22:34] <kylevermeulen> I always find the WordPress debate so interesting. Seems like marketers and web newbies love WordPress for ease of use, but experienced developers despise WP
[22:34] <JesseGilbride> PeterBakacs, if I may throw you a question. I’m more comfy with coding and so I came to this to get some insights on design… (more to follow)…
[22:34] <DavidNYC> I guess i’m just saying “use with caution” and avoid de rigueur reliance on frameworks – if starting from scratch, mobile first approach, you can often get by with just a fraction of a framework’s code.
[22:34] <SD> And do you use a special plugin cache with WordPress? And if so, which one? Are you using any plugins on this site?
[22:34] <DavidNYC> I’m curious your take… in building the sitepoint site, or any other large projects.
[22:34] <glenncogar> Hi, just joined :) So learnable.com is RAILS and SitePoint is WordPress?
[22:35] <HAWK> Correct glenncogar – Learnable uses BootStrap and SP uses Foundation
[22:35] <JesseGilbride> I’m curious if you have a process or some kind of overall checklist. I often find myself staring at a beginning design and thinking “…ok, now what?”
[22:35] <Nora> Responsive Design DOES NOT EQUAL good design skills. IMO. YOu either have the skill or you don’t. Just because a site does not annoyingly change according to your rezising of the browser window does not mean it is not responsive on the server side.
[22:35] <PeterBakacs> JesseGilbride I’m slowly getting around to learning to code
[22:35] <lorio> Learnable seems much more separate from SItepoint now.
[22:35] <PeterBakacs> I would really love to spend less time in Photoshop and just build the thing
[22:35] <scruggs> I definitely think that HTML/CSS is a much better experience for creating user interfaces, simply because it is native to the web browser (caters to a much larger audience) and it’s a much better design/development experience. Plus not to mention, plugins like Flash and Silverlight can open up a “can of worms” at unexpected times and not all device
[22:35] <scruggs> s support these plugins (ex. Mobile technologies).
[22:36] <kylevermeulen> @SD W3 Total Cache
[22:36] <HAWK> DavidNYC – Peter didn’t deal with the technical side of the redesign, he was our UI designer
[22:36] <SD> Thank you kylevermeulen!
[22:36] <JesseGilbride> I tried both codeacademy and learnable, and so far I appreciate codeacademy more because it forces you to push through challenges and milestones, instead of just whizzing through w/o actually getting feedback
[22:36] <DavidNYC> Ah! OK – for UI stuff, particularly prototyping, I <3 bootstrap et al :)
[22:37] <JesseGilbride> …also, it gives you nice little hints here and there
[22:37] <HAWK> Good feedback JesseGilbride – we’re actually working on developing some feedback systems
[22:37] <PeterBakacs> JesseGilbride It’s the hardest part, where do you start?
[22:37] <PeterBakacs> I start with wireframes
[22:37] <kylevermeulen> This might have been asked already but Pete do you start with Photoshop or use a wireframing tool?
[22:37] <lorio> Do you plan on using WordPress commenting system?
[22:38] <PeterBakacs> colour etc somehow finds its way in
[22:38] <HAWK> He uses paper and pencils! So novel. ;)
[22:38] <PeterBakacs> hee hee
[22:38] <johnlacey> lol
[22:38] <JesseGilbride> often I start w/ a pencil and paper, haha. and then go into “what if (it had/did this)” mode :P
[22:38] <HAWK> lorio – for SitePoint you mean? We have customised our own inline commenting system
[22:38] <SizzleMonkey> I like that Jesse
[22:38] <PeterBakacs> for me, paper and pencil is the quickest way to get ideas down
[22:38] <DavidNYC> the tools are not as important as the process, right? :)
[22:38] <kylevermeulen> Is “pencil and paper” an app?
[22:38] <glenncogar> I’d be interested to hear comments on whether wireframes are still the most common first thing to do, given it is fairly easy to mock up a UI using a framework like Bootstrap
[22:38] <JesseGilbride> and go through a dozen iterations until it feels better/right
[22:38] <kylevermeulen> :)
[22:38] <HAWK> heh
[22:38] <PeterBakacs> lol
[22:39] <JesseGilbride> but that’s what I mean, I wish I had a more process/hardened method
[22:39] <JesseGilbride> …i know that’s vague
[22:39] <JesseGilbride> the designers I talk to seem so intuitive, which I envy
[22:39] <PeterBakacs> glenncogar I’ve never used bootstrap
[22:40] <ronsman> I start with drawings, finesse them in Photoshop and then code in the browser: HTML5 & CSS3 are great for that.
[22:40] <JesseGilbride> hahah, kylevermeulen, no, I meant it literally
[22:40] <HAWK> In my experience glenncogar, wireframes still seem to be heavily utilised
[22:40] <glenncogar> PeterBakacs thanks for your feedback Peter, given you did the UI work on SP and probably lots of other things thats good to know
[22:40] <kylevermeulen> JesseGilbride haha, yeah i got you
[22:40] <JesseGilbride> HAWK, glad to hear about the ‘feedback’ thing :D
[22:40] <PeterBakacs> I’m comfortable with creating wireframes because I’ve done it for so many years
[22:40] <TaoistTotty> With the brief being so vague, was it a case of go away and come up with some designs or lets work closely together, and which do you prefer?
[22:41] <PeterBakacs> thanks glenncogar
[22:41] <ronsman> We do also have a bit of Rails in the backend of sitepoint.com BTW. Our inline commenting, eg.
[22:41] <kylevermeulen> Good Q
[22:41] <JesseGilbride> IMHO, wireframes are good as documentation for the developer and QA to refer to
[22:41] <DavidNYC> ^ but collaboration between devs and designers at start is always best
[22:42] <PeterBakacs> TaoistTotty on this occasion it was a bit of both, especially with the homepage
[22:42] <SizzleMonkey> a pencil and a cocktail napkin works well too
[22:42] <kylevermeulen> cocktails always help.
[22:42] <JesseGilbride> haha
[22:42] <PeterBakacs> SizzleMonkey tears a little
[22:42] <DavidNYC> rather than just handoff of deliverables (not saying that was what you advocate JesseGilbride, just putting my two cents in)
[22:42] <HAWK> Because we are a technology company we rely heavily on inhouse testing and feedback TaoistTotty
[22:42] <JesseGilbride> gotta release the creative juices somehow ;)
[22:43] <glenncogar> In what I read, a lot of people emphasise thats its all about creating a workflow that works for you, I think the frameworks have come a long way but I dont think there is such a thing as a universal framework for the workflow… as nice as that would be :)
[22:43] <DavidNYC> ^ exactly
[22:43] <HAWK> Yeah, good point glenncogar
[22:43] <PeterBakacs> glenncogar I believe whatever works best for you, go with it.
[22:43] <HAWK> Having said that, there is definitely a solid ‘design process’ that can be learned
[22:44] <SizzleMonkey> and how does one learn that Hawk?
[22:44] <HAWK> I did a University degree in it SizzleMonkey – Bachelor of Design
[22:44] <HAWK> What was the biggest UI challenge in the redesign PeterBakacs?
[22:44] <glenncogar> I like learning from experts and if they have distilled their expertise into a workflow, or a framework, or something else then it seems like you have a head start… but I still also like looking under the covers to understand *why* they do what they do :)
[22:44] <TaoistTotty> Thanks HAWK and PeterBakacs
[22:44] <Nora> good question Hawk
[22:45] <PeterBakacs> The articles on homepage, channel pages
[22:45] <HAWK> How so?
[22:45] <TaoistTotty> Has Learnable thought of having short courses done by people like PeterBakacs going through what he did and why for the redesign of the Sitepoint website?
[22:46] <PeterBakacs> We wanted to get away fro the old site point, of just having a list
[22:46] <PeterBakacs> of article
[22:46] <kylevermeulen> yeah, good call TaoistTotty
[22:46] <PeterBakacs> s
[22:46] <JesseGilbride> HAWK & PeterBakacs , now or later, I’d appreciate a bit insight about your experience in learning “a solid design process”
[22:46] <kylevermeulen> we’re looking at doing a couple 15 minute videos / short courses
[22:46] <SizzleMonkey> So would I!
[22:46] <PeterBakacs> TaoistTotty we have though about it, thanks for the reminder
[22:46] <glenncogar> +1 JesseGilbride I would like to do that ‘course’ too :)
[22:47] <JesseGilbride> :)
[22:47] <AirFor> What actually makes good UI design?
[22:47] <PeterBakacs> We also wanted the ads to be apart of the design, it was a major consideration
[22:47] <SizzleMonkey> ^5 Jesse
[22:47] <JesseGilbride> AirFor – perhaps if 80% of users don’t hate it? :P
[22:47] <PeterBakacs> You could say they had a little influence
[22:48] <SizzleMonkey> but doesn’t end user usability take precedence over all of it?
[22:48] <johnlacey> It is interesting to see where the ads end up depending on how you resize the browser window.
[22:48] <JesseGilbride> at first I thought “what ads?”, then realized my flash/ad blockers stop them, haha
[22:48] <DavidNYC> PeterBakacs you mentioned you’ve not worked with Bootstrap, but I assume you are to some extent familiar with it. Among many things, it affords you a UI pattern library of sorts. Any other UI pattern libraries out there you reference?
[22:48] <HAWK> JesseGilbride SizzleMonkey This article is pretty good on the basics http://www.promo-design.co.uk/design-process.html
[22:48] <glenncogar> PeterBakacs are you able to share some of the key objectives in the UI re-design brief? or are they ‘sensitive’?
[22:49] <SizzleMonkey> Thanks Hawk
[22:49] <glenncogar> One is ‘make the ads part of the design’ – thats a commercial SP objective I guess?
[22:49] <JesseGilbride> thanks HAWK!
[22:49] <AirFor> thanks for the link h
[22:49] <HAWK> np
[22:49] <PeterBakacs> DavidNYC yes I’ve seen it in action we have used it on other projects, I should probably learn to use it
[22:49] <scruggs> I would be interested in hearing what the steps in the “plan” were and what objectives needed to be met to better accommodate the “target audience”
[22:49] <Liz> I think the ads were worked in very well – usually I find they disrupt the flow of the design, but they don’t on the redesign… I know the importance of the ad placement
[22:50] <SizzleMonkey> good question Scruggs
[22:50] <AirFor> using an ad block does make the new design look odd though, considering blank squares show up
[22:50] <HAWK> Agreed – PeterBakacs – from scruggs “I would be interested in hearing what the steps in the “plan” were and what objectives needed to be met to better accommodate the “target audience””
[22:51] <HAWK> Blank squares only show up if you block ads AirFor
[22:51] <DavidNYC> PeterBakacs – Any other UI patterns you reference? Particularly for mobile / RWD?
[22:51] <johnlacey> It’s always nice to see real world case studies of things.
[22:51] <JesseGilbride> I think PeterBakacs has at least 3 threads of questions thrown at him currently :P
[22:52] <DavidNYC> :)
[22:52] <PeterBakacs> sorry guys
[22:52] <kylevermeulen> haha
[22:52] <JesseGilbride> no no, don’t be, it must be hard
[22:52] <PeterBakacs> Just scanning all these questions
[22:52] <SizzleMonkey> yes. Lets let him answer them as time is running out
[22:52] <PeterBakacs> thinking on scruggs question
[22:52] <ralphm> I notice the SP emails have been redesigned, too. They are much nicer. Was this a part of your job, Peter?
[22:52] <JesseGilbride> (I’ll shut up for a bit) ;)
[22:53] <HAWK> ralphm We contracted those out
[22:53] <kylevermeulen> pete did the design!
[22:54] <kylevermeulen> :) nicole at http://emailwizardry.nightjar.com.au developed the new emails
[22:54] <PeterBakacs> ralphm the newsletters were redesigned after the site by me and built by a dedicated email geek in Melbourne, check her out at http://emailwizardry.nightjar.com.au/
[22:55] <PeterBakacs> shameless plug
[22:55] <PeterBakacs> kylevermeulen lol
[22:55] <ralphm> No probs. The design just felt so much like the new site that I wondered. Anyhow, nice job!
[22:55] <PeterBakacs> JesseGilbride thats handy
[22:56] <HAWK> Ok, so you’re on scruggs question, yeah PeterBakacs?
[22:58] <DavidNYC> good read here: https://www.sitepoint.com/a-brand-new-sitepoint/ :)
[22:58] <HAWK> While Pete is thinking on that question, does anyone else have one that was missed and hasn’t been answered? We have a couple of mins left.
[22:59] <glenncogar> +1 DavidNYC that is a good read, ty :)
[22:59] <SizzleMonkey> Nice chat gang.. I must go…everyone have a good rest of your day where ever you are…Hawk I will be in touch…
[23:00] <HAWK> All good. See ya
[23:00] <DavidNYC> HAWK “PeterBakacs – Any other UI patterns you reference? Particularly for mobile / RWD? “
[23:00] <DavidNYC> :)
[23:00] <HAWK> Sweet.
[23:01] <PeterBakacs> scruggs Give our users a better experience, find articles and information in their preferred topic/channel.
[23:01] <PeterBakacs> scruggs sorry a little vague, happy to respond in an email
[23:02] <JesseGilbride> HAWK – thoughts on flat/bootstrap/etc design versus the more freestyle sorts we used to see a few years back
[23:02] <HAWK> Last up is “PeterBakacs – Any other UI patterns you reference? Particularly for mobile / RWD? ”
[23:02] <scruggs> Thanks Peter…I was just curious about the planning part, but I know it was a pretty loaded question
[23:03] <HAWK> JesseGilbride I think both have their place. My concern is that we’ll into one of those holes where all design starts to look the same
[23:03] <PeterBakacs> I looked at sites like Smashing Magazine and the Next Web
[23:03] <HAWK> I already hear people say “Oh, not another Bootstrap site”
[23:03] <PeterBakacs> sites with heavy content
[23:04] <JesseGilbride> ( agreed, HAWK, it’s quite pervasive now. I don’t wanna steamroll peter, so I’ll end it there. thanks.)
[23:04] <HAWK> All good :)
[23:04] <PeterBakacs> Also referenced a fair bit on mobile
[23:04] <johnlacey> That’s kind of the point, though, I think. If your design doesn’t make your content the star, what is the point of it?
[23:04] <PeterBakacs> sites like http://pttrns.com/
[23:04] <DavidNYC> yeah – “content first”
[23:04] <PeterBakacs> etc
[23:04] <DavidNYC> :)
[23:04] <DavidNYC> cool thanks
[23:04] <HAWK> It’s technically time we wrapped up
[23:04] <glenncogar> +1 Content is king/queen :)
[23:04] <HAWK> You’re welcome to hang out here for as long as you like and chat
[23:04] <DavidNYC> super – thx PeterBakacs and HAWK
[23:04] <johnlacey> Thanks Peter and Hawk.
[23:04] <glenncogar> thanks PeterBakacs and HAWK :)
[23:05] <HAWK> But I have to head off and I imagine Peter does too
[23:05] <PeterBakacs> yes content is what we’re all about
[23:05] <scruggs> Thanks Peter and Hawk
[23:05] <PeterBakacs> the site is just the house
[23:05] <johnlacey> And if you’re an Australian student, or know one, read this: https://www.sitepoint.com/were-giving-10m-of-training-to-help-kids-learn-to-code/
[23:05] * Donald (4d66f4a3@localhost) has joined #sitepoint
[23:05] <JesseGilbride> sorry donald, it’s about over ;)
[23:05] <TaoistTotty> Thanks PeterBakacs and HAWK
[23:05] <JesseGilbride> yes, thanks!
[23:05] <PeterBakacs> Guys if there are any questions you would like me to answer
[23:06] <PeterBakacs> hit me up at firstname.lastname@example.org
[23:06] <PeterBakacs> happy to make time
The Principles of Beautiful Web Design, 4th Edition
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