When and How Much to invest in a Logo?

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I am in the process of starting a company online.

When and How Much should I invest in a Logo??

If I was Microsoft or Apple, I could pay a company $1 million to come up with a Brand Name and then another $1 million to have someone design a Trademark.

But here in the “real world”, that isn’t going to happen.

I have a company name and will be applying for a Trademark, but I am a little unsure of when in the process I should have someone design a logo for me and how much I should spend.

Because my business hasn’t even started yet - and so I have $0 in income - I don’t want to go crazy. (Maybe I don’t even need a logo yet?!)

At the same time, “It takes $$$ to make $$$.”

What do you think?

Debbie

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I just googled “free logo maker software” and got a truck load of hits.

Perhaps look through those and you might find something which you can use to create your own logo.

You might get away with paying $0 for a flashy logo.

imho it would be nice to have your logo on your home page when you first go “live” on the www.

also you could include it on all your stationery and correspondence with clients - both email and hard copy.

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Better call in the “reinforcements”, because some big, mean graphic designers will likely come rough you up here shortly based on that suggestion!! :rofl:

(It is a valid point, but probably a little too short-sighted for my longer term goals. Then again, in this economy, $0, is an attractive price!!)

Debbie

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haha :slight_smile: I’m big enough and ugly enough to look after myself :smiley:

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Ha ha!!

Well, I’ll be there for you (morally) when someone like kohoutek catches wind of your comments… :wink: :slight_smile:

Debbie

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thanks :slight_smile:

when mrs K asks me if those bruises hurt after a session in this forum when people have tried to “rough” me up, I say “They’re nothing, you should see the other guys. They’re in hospital lying in traction” :smiley:

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Huh?

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The point being that a professional Web Designer/Graphic Artist would likely be pretty offended if someone thought a “free logo maker software” could come anywhere close to what they can do. (I think you even posted something to tha effect in another thread.)

I was trying to be funny… (Apparently that didn’t work?!)

Debbie

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I would never take offense. And I certainly would never talk people down.

You’re right, I did respond in that nature in another thread but I hate to sound like a broken record which is why I didn’t respond in this thread. :slight_smile:

Online generators for the web suck for the most part, be it to generate code or some random logo clipart. And as you said, a logo must not cost the world. There are some logo specialists out there who don’t charge an arm and a leg. Three I can think of are Raja Sandhu, [URL=“http://www.helveticbrands.ch/”]Dache, and [URL=“http://www.idapostle.com/”]Steve Zelle, all three are some of the world’s best. I am not in any shape or form affiliated with any of them but thought I’d put those names out there in case it is of interest. But then there are newcomers, young designers, who are just as good and charge even less. You could check some logo galleries that’d help you in finding these talents.

With that said, if you feel a logo generator’s output could be sufficient - for now - then that’s what you should try. I admit I’ve never tried such a tool, so I shouldn’t even judge. I merely find the concept of a “logo generator” pretty abstract.

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personally I wouldn’t be inclined to try an online logo generator either.

but you might find online some free or “relatively cheap” graphics applications (like Photoshop Elements for example) which you could use to make some really flashy looking logos.

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So what is a reasonable amount to pay a professional to design a Logo?

I realize that is a subjective question, but there must be a range…

$50?

$500?

$1,000?

$5,000?

$10,000+ ?

Debbie

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what didn’t you understand :confused2:

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it would largely depend on your specifications.

Would you want

  1. just a simple plain text logo with a splash of colour?

  2. a flashy u-beaut all bells and whistles colours and imagery

  3. optional extra jingle to go with it

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I’d start from the very beginning and write a brief. That in itself will give you a start on what kind of logo you are looking at and some sense of the complexity of what a designers job is. You’ll likely come up with a list of 5-6 key things you want your business and logo to represent, they aren’t always easy to meld together either.

If you are looking for cheap or something decent on a budget I would seriously suggest something like 99designs. With a good brief and payment secured you’ll get a good range of ideas without having to buy into any of them AND you get to set the price. I’ve looked at the results from many of the submissions and there are some very talented designers that frequent there. There are always lower quality submissions but if you use the system, write a good brief and give feedback it is a great way to get a start - even if you never end up using what you buy. (I know that sounds like a waste of money but it will help get you thinking about your logo/company which often changes over the initial months).

As for online logo generators there are some recent threads that tackle that topic which you sound like you may have read already. They’re somewhat useful and applicable in certain scenarios but are never going to replace an intelligent designer.

You could try asking around or looking for students wanting to flex their newly acquired ‘muscles’. You can both learn from the situation and you’ll likely pay less for more ‘man’ hours and refinement.

Personally I’d spend time nutting out a good brief and being super clear what you want your business to represent visually. A lot can be communicated about it very quickly from your logo. Another thing to do is an image search in and around the words or subject of your business and look at other companies logos. What you do and don’t like about them. Colours, shapes, complexity, readability, what works and what doesn’t.

These may sound like small things but as a designer it is so much easier if a client comes in having done their homework. As I put my ideas into the process the amount of re-visiting and honing a designer runs much more smoothly because we’re both clear about the objectives right from the start.

whew didn’t mean to write quite so much…

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Slackr,

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

You bring up some good points.

Yes, I spent a lot of time reading up on Logos last night, and a lot of what you mention was in what I read last night.

I can certainly write a “brief” for any prospective designers, and I’d like to think I have a decent idea of what I want.

But back to one of my original questions…

How much do you think a decent logo would cost?!

You should be able to answer that in “orders of magnitude” like any thing else. (e.g. Getting your house painted will cost more than $500, Lasix for your eyes likely more than $1,000, a College Education will cost Tens of Thousands, etc.)

Thanks,

Debbie

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It is a subjective question because we don’t have any sense of how much money you are willing to spend.

I’m guessing that you are going to be conservative and aren’t in the position to spend 10k on a logo/marketing/branding straight out of the gate. So for your new business, how important is the branding going to be? Some folks can get away with delaying this for a decent amount of time to see if the business is going to work. They get fairly generic business cards made and letterhead, which as long as it looks smart, will suffice. Some businesses require a higher degree of visual representation too, where other industries visual components are a give or take affair, lots of the accountants and lawyers I know locally aren’t winning any graphic design awards with their logos…

Really it needs to be you who decides what your business is worth and what to spend. I would suggest that it is more important to find the right person/designer than how much it costs. Personally I charge and hourly rate with a minimum of 1 hour. It gives clients flexibility to decide how much fiddling and refining they want to do. It isn’t the best business model but I’m a single person operator and it pays my bills. I don’t have high overheads and so everyone wins. If you find someone like me versus a design house where the overheads are higher, more staff, etc etc you are going to be paying more.

A word of warning too, if you do look locally ask to see recent examples of work. Any designer confident in their ability won’t hesitate to find something to show you. If you like what you see ask some questions about the brief they were given and the process. Again any confident designer will be happy to discuss the ins and outs of a project without getting overly defensive.

Chances are that you will have more than just a logo that is needed so it may be worth looking around locally for another business you can go to for advertising etc. If you find someone you like those relationships can be valuable for your business too.

I guess it might be helpful for the conversation if you tested your brief on us or at least mentioned what kind of parameters you are working with (nature of the business, run from home or offsite, numbers of staff/solo operator etc etc). Don’t do that if you aren’t comfortable with releasing that sort of information but certainly it would help to refine answers if we have some of those details.

Cheers

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That’s exactly what I am trying to avoid.

“Oh, you have $5 million. Well, the cost is $5 million dollars then!”

I’m guessing that you are going to be conservative and aren’t in the position to spend 10k on a logo/marketing/branding straight out of the gate.

You’re changing the topic. :wink:

(I did not ask how much it cost for a Logo + Marketing Strategy + Branding Strategy.)

I just asked about how much a decent graphic designer would charge for a Logo.

So for your new business, how important is the branding going to be?

Branding is VERY important, but I’m not asking for help with that.

Some folks can get away with delaying this for a decent amount of time to see if the business is going to work. They get fairly generic business cards made and letterhead, which as long as it looks smart, will suffice.

Thus my desire to have a Logo. (Heck, I had to put my business on hold for nearly a year because I couldn’t come up with a name?! Now I need my company’s name to “look pretty” and not be just Arial 12pt font!!!)

Some businesses require a higher degree of visual representation too, where other industries visual components are a give or take affair, lots of the accountants and lawyers I know locally aren’t winning any graphic design awards with their logos…

The best and longest lasting logos are almost always SIMPLE. (e.g. Think IBM, Nike, FedEx, Sony, CNN, etc.)

Really it needs to be you who decides what your business is worth and what to spend. I would suggest that it is more important to find the right person/designer than how much it costs.

I agree the person is important, but so is the cost.

Why do people always drag these “order of magnitude” questions out? :rolleyes:

Since you won’t answer this question directly, I will assume that creating a Logo will start at $100,000 and go up to $1 million. Since I do not have that much $$$, I won’t be able to afford a Logo. Bummer.

Whew! That was easy! :smiley:

Personally I charge and hourly rate with a minimum of 1 hour. It gives clients flexibility to decide how much fiddling and refining they want to do. It isn’t the best business model but I’m a single person operator and it pays my bills. I don’t have high overheads and so everyone wins. If you find someone like me versus a design house where the overheads are higher, more staff, etc etc you are going to be paying more.

Yeah, but at $100,000 per hour, you still aren’t cheap!!

A word of warning too, if you do look locally ask to see recent examples of work. Any designer confident in their ability won’t hesitate to find something to show you. If you like what you see ask some questions about the brief they were given and the process. Again any confident designer will be happy to discuss the ins and outs of a project without getting overly defensive.

Okay. Good idea.

Chances are that you will have more than just a logo that is needed so it may be worth looking around locally for another business you can go to for advertising etc. If you find someone you like those relationships can be valuable for your business too.

True.

I guess it might be helpful for the conversation if you tested your brief on us or at least mentioned what kind of parameters you are working with (nature of the business, run from home or offsite, numbers of staff/solo operator etc etc). Don’t do that if you aren’t comfortable with releasing that sort of information but certainly it would help to refine answers if we have some of those details.

Cheers

Yeah, unfortunately, I don’t think that is a good idea. It would help add specificity to our conversation, but this IS the Internet… :shifty:

Debbie

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Like Slackr said, there is no fixed price sheme, not even an estimate. It can be anything, from a few thousands to a few bucks. It depends on the who, how, when, and where (geographically), just like the fees doctors, lawyers, architects, etc. charge. That’s why it’s best that you do some research and ask for a quote which most designers offer upon inquiry.

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and the first thing I would expect a reputable logo designer to ask you before giving you an indication of price is what is your specifications or criteria for your logo.

without that it is essentially the same as asking how much does a house cost without providing any additional information.

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As a designer the biggest issue with quoting for a job is managing client expectations. Unless you are very specific for what you are going to provide in terms of time jobs can quickly become an economic nightmare for the designer. Client walks in and says “I want a logo”. Some sort of discussion takes place and there’s a rough agreement. Designer does their work comes back with drafts and the client rejects them all. Unless there has been some agreement about the amount of time invested into this process the client can continue rejecting designs until somehow they are ‘happy’.

In my experience of all the disputed jobs or niggly clients, they almost always come down to clients not being specific, designers working to the brief given, and the client adjusting/changing something, leaving something out and then complaining when the designer doesn’t do it for ‘free’ to make it right.

As for my business I don’t care how much money clients have to throw around, I charge what I charge based on my business model and what I need to make ends meet. It is fair, I charge for my time, if you want to use me then the price is up front. There is no confusion about adjustments or changes - I’m happy to continue changing a logo forever because I know I’m not losing money and the client is obviously happy to continue tweaking it knowing the cost involved.

So as to how much to charge? What I charge is what the business area I live in can stand. That can vary, but has pretty similar limits and sits within the NZ$40-120+ per hour range. That is for an independant contractor, go to an agency and expect to pay more.

Compared to other industries these are comparatively low rates, I don’t know of too many designers/artists making a killing off their jobs around this part of the country. A living perhaps, but not a killing.

Perhaps it is worth asking if you have a formal business plan? It may be worth spending some time investing in asking some of those questions. Very little amount of time is going to revolve around your business name & logo once those decisions are made. At the end of the day businesses get away with all sorts of rubbish branding/logos/marketing - here in NZ we have a gazillion local corner stores with terrible english and garish signage that still make money. At the other end of the scale someone’s idea of logo perfection (at a hefty 6 figure price tag) is someone else’s idea of a random logo spat out of a $100 piece of software…