Family - help and responsibility

[Crazybanana]

Earlier today i looked out my window and saw my 76 year old prostate cancer treated neighbour balancing on
the top of a long ladder, mounting some vents on the rafter/ridge of his house - while his 33 year old
healthy son stood on the ground supporting the ladder… and i was thinking, hmm…

I have never been the most helpfull when it comes to family, but i have always helped if they have asked for
some reasonable help, or if there were things to do which were difficult for them to do, or if there were
things to do that i don’t expect them to do anymore due to age and/or health/sickness…

this said… I will be the first to admit that if any of them asks for some lame help that they can do themself, i will not help 'em!

I’ve always done things alone, and have almost never needed to ask for any help - so i expect this from others too.

but I have always seen it as a duty / obligation to help my elder family with things they cannot do so well
anymore because of their age or health - things they really need help with. Now, i don’t have much contact with my family, as i almost never visit or speak with any of them, but i still think helping them with these sort of things is an honour - and a duty…

I could never live with myself if i send my father or grandpa up in the height to fix the roof or something similar…

How is your view and opinions about these sort of things?

Do you help your family, and what do you do to help?

Do you think one should help family for free, or charge for it?

[Stomme_poes]

I watched the elderly father of a friend of ours climb a rickety ladder to mount some solar panels onto the roof of a ramshackle cottage in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere (to power a magnetometer, geek drool), but nobody sent him up there! He just charged ahead.

Sometimes your body falls behind your determination to keep doing stuff yourself. Asking your kids to go in place is admitting you’re getting old/sick/weak, and you keep hoping to push that day further into the future.

[SpaceGirl]

How is your view and opinions about these sort of things?
I also done almost everything alone and I expect this from the other people too.

Do you help your family, and what do you do to help?
I help them sometimes with money, and always with kind words giving them courage and inner power.

Do you think one should help family for free, or charge for it?
Of course for free. But there is a limit to everything, so for free but not too much.

[xhtmlcoder]

I work with my family so the answer is I have to help them regardless. Perhaps the son had a fear of heights or was incompetent at doing the task. Although it does seem rather weird if he was capable of the task and knew the older man would struggle, etc.

[mizwizzy]

I’ve seen this myself a few times. More often it’s the father/older figure that is stubborn and is adamant to do these jobs or in most cases the son/younger person doesn’t have a clue what he would be doing in the first place and in a case where height or electrics are involved, that’s just flirting with danger! So it makes sense for a more experienced person to take the lead and the other person assist. I mean it’s quite telling that the son was there in the first place, it shows that he was willing to help, otherwise he wouldn’t be there. There are reasons for everything, but I can see how it would look strange and easy to frown upon the younger person.

I always help my family, no money involved… that’s just plain despicable …it’s family Being the computer nerd that I am, I’m always roped into helping with x y and z over and over again - silly problems but I would never say no because that’s not me. I always go out of my way to help out anyway I can, if there are any jobs to be done, I’ll offer help to make the load easier on others, isn’t that just basic human decency?

[Crazybanana]

@Stomme_poes

I watched the elderly father of a friend of ours climb a rickety ladder to mount some solar panels onto the roof of a ramshackle cottage in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere (to power a magnetometer, geek drool), but nobody sent him up there! He just charged ahead.

Sure - like Nepals 81 year old ex minister who tried to be the oldest to climb Mt Everest, but died. I think these situations raises more questions than they answer…

@Stomme_poes

Sometimes your body falls behind your determination to keep doing stuff yourself. Asking your kids to go in place is admitting you’re getting old/sick/weak, and you keep hoping to push that day further into the future.

I have no truble understanding this, but did they have to ask, couldn’t we volunteer to do it without them asking.

I could not stand and watch grandpa climb 8-9 meter up a thin ladder to do work that are risky for him at that age - when I, myself is healthy and perfectly capable of doing it… how would I feel if he felt down and died…

@xhtmlcoder

Perhaps the son had a fear of heights or was incompetent at doing the task. Although it does seem rather weird if he was capable of the task and knew the older man would struggle, etc.

The son is more capable of the task than his old sick father. That’s why i was thinking hmm…

@mizwizzy

I’ve seen this myself a few times.

I’ve seen it too, we all have. but does that justify it, if the man fell down.

@mizwizzy

More often it’s the father/older figure that is stubborn and is adamant to do these jobs or in most cases the son/younger person doesn’t have a clue what he would be doing in the first place and in a case where height or electrics are involved, that’s just flirting with danger!

In this case the father had asked a few others if they could do it, because he was old and sick, and didn’t want to go up there himself.

@mizwizzy

So it makes sense for a more experienced person to take the lead and the other person assist.

of course, but the son was more suited for this than the old man

@mizwizzy

I mean it’s quite telling that the son was there in the first place, it shows that he was willing to help, otherwise he wouldn’t be there.

that was not help - i helped just as much from drinking icetea at my balcony - maybe i should charge 'em :smoke:

@mizwizzy

There are reasons for everything

sure, there would be a reason why the old man fell down, if he did. Maybe he deserved it, could be fate, his time had come, some higher power, punishment for the son or simply a state of gravity…

@mizwizzy

I always help my family, no money involved… that’s just plain despicable …it’s family Being the computer nerd that I am, I’m always roped into helping with x y and z over and over again - silly problems but I would never say no because that’s not me. I always go out of my way to help out anyway I can, if there are any jobs to be done, I’ll offer help to make the load easier on others, isn’t that just basic human decency?

You should be proud - i only help with things they really need help with, and if i know there is such things to be done, i volunteer to do it.

as i said before, I am not the most helpfull, and I have little contact with my family, but I do have some norms and rules to live by

[mizwizzy]

@Crazybanana

In this case the father had asked a few others if they could do it, because he was old and sick, and didn’t want to go up there himself.

Well, going by that additional piece of information, I would also take a dim view on the son. I guess the father could have relayed how to do the job to the son too but maybe his fear of heights, for example, was too overwhelming, who knows? Not all men are born invincible you know!

Hmm…it is a strange one though… if I was that ill and I needed a job to be done and no one could help me, I’d hire someone to do the job for me. Wonder why he didn’t go with that option? Guess we’ll never know! :scratch:

[Crazybanana]

the situation i provided at the start was ment just as an example, don’t be obsessed with it - I was more interested in what people thinks about helping the family in general, especially the elder family…

[php_daemon]

Interesting subject. There are some core values going on underneath it so I think we need to account for them to understand this.

First of all what is family? Immediate family, extended family, all relatives? And what is your relationship with them? Some people hold the family title sacred, regardless of their relationship. Even if they hate some members they would be obliged to do anything for them because it’s sacred. What core value is that? It’s a submission to someone else by virtue of their title, nothing more.

So if you see an honor in helping family just because of their title, you see yourself as a slave born into the slavery of family.

Or if you reject this slavery and accept that titles mean nothing, and family means nothing if there’s no relationship, you will not consider it an honor to help them. You will consider it an honor to help a person whom you value, regardless if they’re family or not.

Same goes for age, i.e. helping old people just because they’re old.

I stand on the second option. I find it as much honorable as helping a total stranger, that is there’s no honor or dishonor at all, it’s neutral. And if I’ve a bad relationship with some family member and they hustle me into doing something, I find it a dishonor that I’ve given in to slavery.

@Crazybanana

I’ve always done things alone, and have almost never needed to ask for any help - so i expect this from others too.

Me too, but I find that few people are like that or even understand it.

@Crazybanana

but does that justify it, if the man fell down.

If they didn’t ask you, and you forcefully do it, does it justify you going against their will? And how does it stand with your above statement about asking for help?

[Crazybanana]

Gaaahhh! I had written a long post here and the server returns an error and it’s all gone :mad:

[php_daemon]

Oops, you’re not using Opera? Usually you can recover your text in those situations if you hit ‘back.’

[Crazybanana]

I only use opera for testing this has happened so many times here that i use to copy the text before posting - but not this time…

[Crazybanana]

@php_daemon

Interesting subject

answers are interesting

@php_daemon

First of all what is family? Immediate family, extended family, all relatives? And what is your relationship with them?

this i believe to be different from person to person. For me personally, family is us living in my house, then my parent, sister, brother and grandpa - even though i have almost no contact with those outside this house.

@php_daemon

Some people hold the family title sacred, regardless of their relationship. Even if they hate some members they would be obliged to do anything for them because it’s sacred. What core value is that? It’s a submission to someone else by virtue of their title, nothing more.

sure, but this can somehow be explained due to culture, beliefs, traditions, blood is thicker than water etc… - but i see and understand your point.

No one, family or not, could ever get me to do things i, myself wouldn’t do.

@php_daemon

So if you see an honor in helping family just because of their title, you see yourself as a slave born into the slavery of family.

hehe, it’s one thing to help with things that can be dangerous for them to do, another thing is to be their slave. if things are time consuming or i cannot do it, they can hire some smurfs to do it, and don’t waste my time.
There is only one person to decide if you’re gonna help or not - and it’s you.

@php_daemon

Or if you reject this slavery and accept that titles mean nothing, and family means nothing if there’s no relationship, you will not consider it an honor to help them

for many people there is an emotional factor towards family. and as i said, some even believe that blood is thicker than water…

@php_daemon

You will consider it an honor to help a person whom you value, regardless if they’re family or not.

many would probably see it this way… for me it’s as simple as, you don’t ask for help if you don’t really need it - when i say really need it, I mean really need it. some people asks for help to do every little thing, and they expect others to help with anything they asks for. I don’t expect anything, so i never get disappointed - if i really need help i have a few (2-3) friends i could ask (I had to be pretty desperate do ask, but anyway), or i would hire some help. But i prefer to do it myself.

But of course if it was my best friend and he really needed this help, i would consider it an honor.

If the person was just lazy, I’d just give him the finger and tell him to ****

@php_daemon

Same goes for age, i.e. helping old people just because they’re old.

Being old don’t equal to being unable to do everything. Old people can do most things, but of course some things are best suited for younger people.
This year i will paint the roof of my grandpa’s house - he is 80 years old, and his health is not the best. this is no problem coz he is one heck of a guy

@php_daemon

I stand on the second option. I find it as much honorable as helping a total stranger, that is there’s no honor or dishonor at all, it’s neutral

Helping strangers is a nice thing too. personally, i help strangers more than family.

@php_daemon

And if I’ve a bad relationship with some family member and they hustle me into doing something, I find it a dishonor that I’ve given in to slavery.

so what you are saying here is that you would help a family member you don’t even like, just because he/she is family - and thus becoming a slave. thats interesting, considering your opinion regarding this issues…

@php_daemon

Me too, but I find that few people are like that or even understand it

same here, but people pretend to understand it, and this pisses me off.

@php_daemon

If they didn’t ask you, and you forcefully do it, does it justify you going against their will? And how does it stand with your above statement about asking for help?

lets face it, everyone will need some help one time or another during their life.
of course i would not lock my grandpa in a room while i was mowing the lawn for him haha

but if he had to go 8-10 meter up a thin unstable ladder and balance on the top, to do some work even a young and healthy man would consider dangerous, i would volunteer or look for other solutions - or just admit that he had dementia and alzheimer’s disease, and get him some help

[php_daemon]

Sounds like you consider people individually, family or not, that’s exactly my point of view as well.

Some people attach emotional value to family as a collective entity, yes, whatever they’re reasons - cultural, traditional or based on beliefs - but regardless of the value they get from this family as entity, I consider that a different core value.

Which is fine by me, by the way, I don’t mean it’s wrong or right, it’s not for me to decide. As long as they don’t try to force these values on me, because they are not mine. So a saying, “help them because they’re family” will never go down well with me.

@Crazybanana

so what you are saying here is that you would help a family member you don’t even like, just because he/she is family - and thus becoming a slave. thats interesting, considering your opinion regarding this issues…

I wouldn’t. And if after all they managed to get me do it in some way, I’d hate myself for it.

[force]

Yes, it’s good to help family out, and I agree on many of the positive things that have been said about this topic, but on the other hand, how much is too much–especially where it starts negatively impacting the family member(s) offering assistance? I’ve seen people waste their lives with caring for elderly relatives as they become less and less able to do things on their own–just because, as php_daemon mentions, “they’re family”. A caregiver has only so much time to contribute to an elderly family member’s long-term care. At that point, it might be time to have them hire some help or have the relative move into an assisted living home (note: this is far different than a nursing home). While it’s good to let them have as much independence as possible, it’s just not always possible with physical and mental ailments that can creep up with age.

[Crazybanana]

@php_daemon

Sounds like you consider people individually, family or not, that’s exactly my point of view as well.

interesting…

I guess you don’t just sit on your room so… what do you do to help or support your family? if you don’t mind me asking…

@php_daemon

And if after all they managed to get me do it in some way, I’d hate myself for it.

Hate is a strong word…

[Crazybanana]

@Force_Flow

how much is too much–especially where it starts negatively impacting the family member(s) offering assistance?

This is a good question, and i think the answer will depend on who you ask - answer will be fluent…

In my opinion too much is when it starts to be a burden to you and/or starts to impact the helper negatively. where the line is drawn, would depend on the person i guess…

@Force_Flow

I’ve seen people waste their lives with caring for elderly relatives as they become less and less able to do things on their own–just because, as php_daemon mentions, “they’re family”.

I’ve seen this too - more than once. it’s a pity, as they have their own life to live and worry about. One man i know has his old mother, and his lazy brother to take care of - he choosed to have them living at home, instead of living at an assisted living home, and now he has so much work with them that his own life has kinda stopped…

@Force_Flow

While it’s good to let them have as much independence as possible, it’s just not always possible with physical and mental ailments that can creep up with age.

of course not, and i have no trouble understanding why people wants to live at home longest possible, before being “forced” to move into some assisted livng/rest/nursing home - but there is a line to be drawn

[php_daemon]

@Crazybanana

I guess you don’t just sit on your room so… what do you do to help or support your family? if you don’t mind me asking…

I do just sit in my room! But as long as I pay the bills I’m the boss. I really don’t like giving up my time helping to do something because usually it’s just an ineffective use of time. It’s amazing how people can disregard the value of time to save a few pennies. Since time is limited and money is not, I usually don’t have problem helping with that. Having in mind everything I said in this thread before.

@Crazybanana

Hate is a strong word…

It is. And it’s about right.

[sunnyo0]

Oops ,they are your families , of course free

[SpaceGirl]

Sometimes it’s kind of hard to balance between the family who raised you and your own responsibilities. Sometimes I just don’t answer my phone. It’s sad but a fact.

And, yeah, it is always gratis. I mean - the help.