By Chris Beasley

Building a Forum with Bribes

By Chris Beasley

Getting a forum off the ground more than nearly anything else is one of the most time consuming things for a content site publisher to do. In some cases it takes years to get enough posts for the forum to truly become active.

The issue is that if people have no threads to reply to then they are less likely to register, and if no one ever registers then there will be no threads to reply to. It is very much a catch-22 situation. You will get the occasional person who registered to ask a question, and after a significant amount of time you may have enough of those people to get the ball rolling. However in general forums need a critical mass of posts before they start getting active with daily repeat visitors. I estimate that mass to be at least 1000 posts.

If you don’t wish to wait though there are tricks, you can manufacturer posts automatically using public domain content. You can talk to yourself, literally, with multiple usernames, you can beg your friends to visit and post, or you can pay people to post. The latter, paying for posts, is what I wish to talk about today.

Running Contests

New businesses have always run contests as part of their initial marketing, and Internet businesses are no different. So you could run a contest with prizes for the first posters to reach a certain level of posts, making sure they’re all of quality though. You could also run a contest with a prize for the person who refers the most new members. The upside of this is that you will gain the benefit of the efforts of the second, third, and fourth place finishers (and all the way down the line) without actually having to pay them. The downside of this method is that you’ll likely have to spend a significant amount of time moderating the contest to prevent cheating, copyright infringement, and useless posting. If you have a lot of time but not a lot of money this might be for you. I personally prefer other methods. If you do wish to run a contest SitePoint has a special forum for advertising it.

Revenue Sharing

One ingenious method of bribing your posters is sharing the revenue from the site. At face value this seems like a massive headache. Making sure you have their tax information, sending out multiple checks, building trust so they know you’re not shorting them. However it’s really not that hard if you use Google Adsense. All you really need is for your user’s to sign up with Google Adsense and then you modify your forum code to allow them to enter their Adsense ID into their forum profile and then have your forum randomly pull that ID a percentage of the time on threads that the user started, thus giving them a share of the revenue from their own posts. I think this is a great way to encourage user activity. If it sounds too technical to tackle, don’t worry, people have coded hacks for this very thing that carry simple installation instructions. The one for vBulletin is here.

I tried this method and unfortunately it didn’t work as well as I’d hoped, I only got a handful of new members. I still have a lot of faith in this method though, I simply think that members have to see some earnings from the beginning or they get discouraged. So for a new site with little traffic it’s not really going to be that effective. Down the road though if you’re already established but trying to grow quickly and or get the edge over a competing forum I think this is definitely something to consider.

Paying for Posts

There is also the option of paying for posts directly. Hardly a day goes by that someone doesn’t post in SitePoint’s forums asking for paid posters. You can follow the example of these people and hire out to individuals, but much like the contest option you have to worry about policing each individual poster and spend more time sending payment to everyone. I personally prefer something a little easier.

Due to the recent growth of the paying for posts phenomenon many companies have sprung up offering forum posting services. These companies hire, pay, and police the posters for good behavior. You just make a one time purchase and they handle the rest. The prices are also reasonable, at least in my opinion. It sounded like a great option to me.

Now, there are issues to worry about here. I was worried that these companies would send me a bunch of posters with poor English skills, people who would post off topic, or maybe just immature teenagers who’d fill my forums with “leetspeak” garbage. So I contacted many of these companies about reviewing their services, and ended up reviewing two of them, and yes they knew they were being reviewed when they provided their services so there is always the possibility that they were treating me better than their normal clients. Though hopefully if any of you try their services you’ll post your own review in the comments here.

The first company I reviewed was Inb0x.com, they got back to me ultra quick, quicker than any other company I contacted. The work was done in about 2 weeks after that, as I requested. Their posters seemed to be mostly from the UK and as such had excellent English skills. I got two mid level packages which were 300 posts for $65.99. I had them post on two brand new forums of mine, one which I considered to be an easy topic, and one which I considered to be a hard topic.

As to be expected the easier topic one was done first, and they seemed to struggle more with the harder topic, but they honestly beat my expectations with the harder topic. The writers seemed to actually research the topic before trying to post, and their posts were much better than I had hoped for.

I did not mention that I did not want them posting in general chat, however Inb0x.com did post more in general chat than the other company I reviewed, having a total of 36% of their posts in that area.

Inb0x.com also offers 75 posts for $22.99 and 700 posts for $145.99, which would be the package I recommend as I really think a forum needs around 1000 posts to get the ball rolling.

The second company I reviewed was PostOnMyForum.com. These guys got back to me quickly as well, but it was to tell me that they were too busy to take on any additional work right at the moment, so it was a couple weeks before they were actually available to start with the posting.

Like I did with Inb0x.com I requested two mid-level packages, here they are $95 for 300 posts, and had them do one on each of my forums. It took these guys a little longer than Inb0x.com to complete their work, however I believe this was due to a few of their workers slacking off. When I mentioned this to them they promptly removed and replaced the slackers, giving me the posts the slackers had done for free.

Another difference is that PostOnMyForum.com has the option of allowing writers to post under multiple usernames. I initially accepted this option, as I thought that it would increase the appearance of activity. However I would not do so again. The reason is that when allowed this freedom the writers seemed to post a lot of “yes I agree” type replies to their other posts. This increased their post count but did not really add much in quality content to the forum.

Most of PostOnMyForum.com’s posters seemed to be from the US, though they did seem young. Like Inb0x.com it seemed that on the harder forum they did do research before posting, which is good, however I feel that they didn’t do as much research. As far as posting in general chat goes only 22% of their posts were in those areas.

PostOnMyForum.com also offers 100 posts for $35 and 1000 posts for $285, and again I recommend the largest available package if you really want to get things moving.

Overall I was very pleased with my experience with both forum posting services and I am definitely going to have to recommend using such a service if you have a new forum and can afford it. Using these services can allow you to fast forward months or even years ahead in your forum’s growth and so eventually the advertising revenue earned from that increased growth should more than cover what you paid for these posts to begin with. I know that next time I launch a forum I’ll be doing this, and I may even do it again for the two new forums I mentioned here.

  • Nice article Chris, I am currently thinking of creating some forums but was worried about getting them off the ground. This gives me a few good ideas to get the ball rolling :)

  • John

    Chris, very interesting article. I’d never heard of such a thing. Lots to keep up with these days and lots to learn as I’m also one of those web designers considering setting up some content sites for advertising and retail revenue.

    I know an individual who owns several TV stations and he told me that it costs him the same money to broadcast his 6 p.m. news to 100 people as it does 1 million. But, the more viewers he has, the more money he can charge for advertising. In his words, “you can’t get rich laying bricks because you can only lay so many bricks in a day.”

    Anyway, just curious to ask: How many online stores do you run? I would imagine the hosting and e-commerce costs would start to add up after a while with multiple stores.


  • Very interesting indeed. I intend to launch a few websites in the next couple of months and wasn’t sure how I would handle the forum creation, mainly because it’s time consuming.
    I had heard a few years ago there were posting contests but had totally forgotten about that, so thanks for your post.
    I’ll probably use such a service at least on one site to try them out, hoping that postings will be of good quality on more complex subjects.

  • Anyway, just curious to ask: How many online stores do you run? I would imagine the hosting and e-commerce costs would start to add up after a while with multiple stores.

    A lot, over 100. And hosting is relatively cheap. I’m not paying for 100 virtual hosting accounts, I lease entire servers and so for the smaller sites the incremental cost for me to run them is next to nothing.

  • Joe

    thanks…nice article….i run a couple of forums and it always takes ages to get going…my main forum took 5 years to get going!

  • Very nice article Aspen. A few months ago I saw someone selling their posting site here at SitePoint and I was curious as to the quality of these posts. Its definitely a great option and something I will look into in the near future.

  • Great article Chris! I’ve tried building online communities in the past and the number one killer was lack of unique content. And talking to yourself takes time (time most of us don’t have!).

    This is a great option to get a forum off the ground. With a few paid articles and some paid forum posts, a content site could get a good start (and for very little investment).

  • NetNerd85

    Good blog, very interesting but it would have been nice if you stated the currency.

  • John

    A lot, over 100. And hosting is relatively cheap. I’m not paying for 100 virtual hosting accounts, I lease entire servers and so for the smaller sites the incremental cost for me to run them is next to nothing.

    Very interesting. Perhaps an article on how you manage that many sites?

    Glad I found your blog. Good stuff!


  • GDA

    Managing over 100 e-commerce sites would have eaten up my life:)
    How can you manage them? Have you got employees?

    An article about this would be very interesting.

  • PvZ

    Very interesting article. Hadn’t heard of such companies yet. Might try one or two of them in the future.

    As for managing so many e-commerce sites, I too would like to see an article about that. Especially a short description on how it grew to that number.

  • MarkB

    Chris means 100 sites total, I believe. He has a large number of content sites, and a few e-comm.

  • In some cases, I would rather scout for paid posters myself in related communities, that way I also make sure they get proper instructions and an understanding of what theír posts are for (grow community/answer questions/induce follow-up posts etc.)

  • Sojan80

    Roll me up in that bundle as well… I would love to see an article or two on how to go about managing that many sites… Are all your sites e-commerce sites or are some content based around a particular topic?

    As for the posting companies ideas that’s one to look into for the future indeed.

  • ablueman

    I would also like to see a blog on this sort of thing.

  • I would also like to read-up on your methods for managing that many site as well. Also for the e-commerce sites are you using Amazon.com, Yahoo Stores, etc..? or are you creating them yourself?

    Great artical here by the way. Thanks!

  • Anonymous

    hi, does anyone know if there is such a poster-service for the german speaking community?


  • psalzmann

    Thanks for the heads up. This was a great article focusing on the trends found on Sitepoint these days. Almost everyone and their cousin is offering paid forum posting but this brings to light some of the more established firms offering the service.

    Since the article, we’ve contacted inb0x and waiting their reply.


  • web-rocket

    Ok, my experience is don’t go with any posting companies and just hire people from the SitePoint forums, it’s cheaper.
    Example: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332451

    This was great for me and my new site and it didn’t take 1000 posts to get the ball rolling. http://www.talkpaws.com The people that I hired to post on my site were fantastic and did a great job. Some even stuck around after the job was over… I think the SitePoint community in general are a good group of people and typical you will get people who are truly interested in the subject that apply for the job.

    My advice, hire people here and be very specific in what you are looking for when you post your job description.


  • John

    One more thought that popped into my head while driving around: If your run 100+ stores, do you have an LLC for each or are they all under one umbrella company? I ask because even though I live in a tax-friendly state like Nevada, the sheer cost of licensing and collecting taxes for each of the 100 stores as separate companies would bankrupt me.

  • I might just add that there were MANY posting companies that did not participate in this ‘test’ due to lack of time to make posts for free.
    Congrats to Inbox and PostOnMyForum, but keep in mind there are many other fantastic posting services out there as well.
    – ForumBulge.com

  • ablueman

    As a suggestion why dont you offer the first 10 free then, so people can see the quality of the postings. Im sure that would drag customers in.

  • Hi,

    Nice article, but I would like to know you also got response on the articles these 2 companies posted for you, or did it remain just 1-item posts?



  • As a suggestion why dont you offer the first 10 free then, so people can see the quality of the postings. Im sure that would drag customers in.

    Ok, I will honor that idea.

    I will offer 10 free sample posts to the first 5 people who contact me and quote “Sitepoint Blog” as their reference.

  • Nabil Feisal

    My website Fancyblog.com has just launched and is also free from any posts from any users. I’ve already got my forum setup to run a Blog Design Competition, where the winner wins US$500 and the Blog Designer of the Year Award. But I have yet to do any promotion on the competition so I’ve not had any new visitors even register to enter the competition.. it might be because there’s no content and therefore people think the website isn’t legitimate. So, I personally agree with those of the opinion that a Forum is really hard to start-up! For curiosity’s sake just head-on over to http://www.fancyblog.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28 if you happen to be a blog designer.

  • arthuc01

    Good article, to be honest i’ve struggled in the past trying to get forums off the ground but I’m not really convinced that this is really a good solution. IMHO there needs to be a natural growth in the forum, even if it takes getting people you know to participate to build momentum. I don’t see how x number of posts and then leaving builds real momentum as such?

  • web-rocket

    arthuc01 I have to disagree. My site http://www.talkpaws.com is less than two weeks old and is VERY active. All it took was a little boost from the Site-Point members. I like hiring them directly from the SP forums but if you don’t like that I would suggest using one of the paid posting solutions above. Also submit your site to as many directories as you can… ad your site in your signature. Maybe even run some cheap keywords through Google. It all helps and eventually it will blow up. I used to own http://www.unitethecow.com at one time it had 45,000+ members the DB crashed and had to start over now it has 15,000+ but still strong. I Sold it here not to long ago… Content is king my friend… give them a reason to come back.

  • ed

    I hired inb0x for my forums and have been happy so far. It has not yet attracted any new members, but a couple old members have chimed back in. I am impressed with their content and attempts to keep the conversation going.

  • steve

    MMMMMMMM. I contacted http://www.inb0x.com through this review, and recieved an email from them with in 2 days, great I thought…. I’ll make the payment and get some posts on my forum….or so I thought…!!!!

    Since contacting http://www.inb0x.com , my paypal email address and the email address I used to contact http://www.inb0x.com, have been flooded with fake spam paypal emails, now-on going to about 100 a day, I have 15 email address’s and the only ones that are getting this spam are the two I used to contact http://www.inb0x.com.

    With this I have stoped all contact with this site, as either their computers are compromised, or worse…….

    If I’m wrong I’ll hold my hands up and take the flack.

  • I think thats unrelated, everyone I know has been getting loads of PayPal phishing emails the last day or so.

  • steve

    It could be, and i hope so, was looking forward to having them post on my forum. and like i said, if it isnt, then i’ll apologise for it.
    Its just very fishy that the only email address that gets these spam paypal emails, are the emails I used to contact this website, and the spam only started after contacting them…..

  • Hello everyone.

    Im here speaking on behalf of Inb0x.com.

    Steve, Thankyou for posting your concerns. We never mind hearing feedback about the security of our ordering system as it helps us improve our systems.

    I would however like to put your mind at rest and confirm that our order form has not be compromised in anyway and your email addresses were safe with us. My webmaster has checked our system completly and has found no problems at all.

    I do know alot of fake emails concerning paypal have been wondering around this last week and im sure if you contact paypal they can confirm this.


    The sites reputation does effect my business so to put anyones minds at rest that are still a little unsure i have completly changed our ordering system. I was going to update it so it was all automated anyway you just gave me the nudge to get it done sooner rather than later.

    Our order page is now on a SSL 128 bit encrypted Page on a remote server separate from the Inb0x website. All orders are also now automatically processed by paypal.

    I hope this puts everyones mind at rest and if you do have any more questions please feel free to email me.


  • WebMomentum

    I also contacted inb0x.com and used an email address I had only created about 10 minutes prior to filling out the form (so the email was known to no one other than myself and inb0x.com). Within a day or so, that email, and the other I entered in the form were inundated with PayPal phishing emails which are intensifying daily.

    I too stopped correspondence with inb0x.com because of this. I wanted to post here about it on Monday but figured it was an unrelated incident. Now that I have seen another with the same issue, I will post (sorry about anonymous post – I’m at a computer that doesn’t have my Sitepoint login cookie). Please advise

  • steve

    Hello Angela,
    Thank you for your reply to my earlier post. If this has been resolved, I will apologise to Angela and http://www.inb0x.com, and ask one of the sitepoint webmasters to remove my earlier post, or added an edit to it, to show that this has been resolved.

    Thank you,

  • ed

    I have received both excellent service and no issues with PayPal spam mail above and beyond what I receive on a regular basis. I once used an ATM at a Wells Fargo, but I don’t point the finger at that ATM for the phishing schemes I get in my email with their logo and name.

  • Anonymous

    ed Says:
    January 19th, 2006 at 4:29 pm

    I have received both excellent service and no issues with PayPal spam mail above and beyond what I receive on a regular basis. I once used an ATM at a Wells Fargo, but I don’t point the finger at that ATM for the phishing schemes I get in my email with their logo and name.


  • ablueman

    I think hes trying to say just because you use inbox or paypal it doesnt mean that the spam is coming from them. Although the guy that created the email address 5 mins before hand… it does look a little condemning.

    Saying that the spam may already have been pointing to that email address from the previous owner. Or it could have been a problem with the paypal form. You cant blame inbox as there are too many variables.

    You have a choice. personnaly I wouldnt hold it against them I would just go create an email address on hotmail and use that to sign up just in case..

    ps. getting a bit off topic arnt we ;)

  • ablueman

    Perhaps inbox should for their own benefit sign up a few accounts with new internal mail addresses that are not used and see if the same happens?

  • WebMomentum

    I totally agree with “ablueman”, my situation was most likely an unfortunate coincidence as there are a myriad of possible variables in play and possible explanations. My previous reply was meant to be more of a “Hey, that happened to me too”.

    It seems Angela and her team have made quick efforts to alleviate any concerns and the majority of replies here seem to confirm the quality of service provided by inb0x.

  • Debonairblog

    Awesome article Chris. Currently, I am also working on launching a couple of forums and you have sure given us some great ideas. I especially liked the Google Adsense i.e. Revenue Sharing.

    Thanks again for the wonderful article.


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  • Very interesting ideas. I was wondering how so many forums seem to get a big kickstart. My only concern is that we’re starting to see too many forums out there, at least on many popular topics.

  • Musica360.com

    Thanks for this great article. I’ve just paid Inbox to start my forums off, so i’m interested in seeing how this goes.

  • Thanks for highlighting the revenue sharing options, we do offer that option on Computing News dot com

  • Thanks for the helpful article. Very informative. Inb0x must be very busy because of it now. I contacted them 3 days ago, but have not heard back yet.

  • Anonymous

    My recommendation is simple: Stay away from inb0x. During the last TEN DAYS I have contacted them four times and was just ignored.

    They are also actively hiring paid forum posters in the sitepoint forums, so please if you intend to sign up as such be very careful. Unless you want to do that for nothing.

    As far as forums go it is true, they grow exponentially through search engine traffic alone.

    Have a nice day everybody !

  • Hello,
    As for recruiting on Sitepoint, yes i thats true. Where better to get good writers from? On a forum where i can see there writing skills from along time back and see there posts that havent been faked for an interview. Also we test all writers and they go on a 1 week trial so I dont see that, that is relevant for your anger.
    I have recieved your email and yes you have contacted me 3 times.
    Also in PM here aswell as emailing the actual website.
    I replied to this email the first time you contacted me answering your question about the genre of where we can post.

    I havent kept up with my emails this week no, but im only human . I run this business as professional as i can but ive got issues at home that have effected my work. Yes im sorry they have effected my work but it has. They have been beyond my control.
    All those that have any concerns, all emails are being dealt with this weekend and sorry for the delay.

    This only applys to the Contact us Form.

    Kind Regards

  • ablueman

    The recruiting from sitepoint thing sounds like a good idea to me. I think Id rather know this lot are behind the posts than some twit who really doesnt care about the development of a sites community or someone that might get upset over something and rant on when he could have posted a structured reply. Its also nice to see that there is some structured recruitment.

    Just as a suggestion though you might want to be a little more apologetic to your customers and a little less defensive, no offense, im sure your personnal circumstances warrant emotion, but to be proffesional you might want to try a little detachment.

    Put in an service level agreement of some sort. If I dont answer your email within 4 days, You get an extra 20 free posts on successfull purchase of a deal or something. Then the customer feels like he has won something you dont lose the business.

    What sort of money do people pay for posters anyway?

  • Put in an service level agreement of some sort. If I dont answer your email within 4 days, You get an extra 20 free posts on successfull purchase of a deal or something. Then the customer feels like he has won something you dont lose the business.

    I like that idea. It’s been six days since I contacted Inb0x and still no response.

  • I pride myself on replying to people within 24 hours of their enquiry or order.
    I think this is vital, and it’s something I enjoy doing.

    I have also recruited from Sitepoint over the past week, handpicking two or three people to join my team and I’m very happy with them.
    I put people on trial before taking them on as permanent.

    “What sort of money do people pay for posters anyway?”
    This varies and is stated on each website.
    I have a very popular $10 plan where people can trial the service.

  • Tracy

    I pride myself on replying to people within 24 hours of their enquiry or order.
    I think this is vital, and it’s something I enjoy doing.

    I have also recruited from Sitepoint over the past week, handpicking two or three people to join my team and I’m very happy with them.
    I put people on trial before taking them on as permanent.

    “What sort of money do people pay for posters anyway?”
    This varies and is stated on each website.
    I have a very popular $10 plan where people can trial the service.

    No offense ForumBulge you have to jump on every band wagon.
    If your competition gets slated or has a few problems you are the first to jump and say yeah such and such is bad butand im like this!
    I have ordered your packages forum bulge.
    You did not contact me very quick at all, I waited 7 days to get confirmation from you and then no advice when posting would start.
    Your new advertised system to check for posts is very basic and i had to demand for those details to be sent to me and your customer service is very poor.
    SO before you slate someone elses review let me remind you that you were the one arguing about on DP about not wanting to join this review and leave there thread alone.
    Ive ordered work off Inb0x too and had no problems apart from the email respose time in the last 2 weeks. They explained why the emails were delayed and i thought that it was good enough reason.
    If you dont get a reply try emailing them personally and not using there contact form, i found that they responded alot quicker this way.

  • I have never had a customer called Tracy, sorry.
    And I am at the computer 10 hours per day and answer emails as soon as they come through.
    My longest response time is 24 hours, and that’s on a weekend.


  • For whatever it’s worth, I think a person may be better off hiring their help from an outsourcing web site such as getafreelancer.com. I was intrigued when I first read this blog entry about building a forum with bribes so I decided to try this method for building my forums. Going through my records, I have attempted to do buisness with seven different forum services and only ONE of them completed the job. It wasn’t the greatest job, but in their defense my forums are about a niche topic which may have made it harder to write about. There are three other forum posting services that owe me money because they didn’t find writers as they promised. The last three service providers all promised me that they “had writers for the job”, but then never wrote back again. Very unprofessional. Well, anyway, I decided to do some research and incidentally found job listings on various freelance web sites looking for posters on my forums. So basically, when these forum posting service providers told me that they “have a staff” of writers that can write on any topic I have a very hard time believing it. All they are doing is outsourcing my outsourcing! They were cahrging me up to $0.20 per post, but then hiring someone else to make the posts for anything between $0.07 and $0.10. Ultimately, I did learn a lesson. I’ve since began looking for paid forum posters on various freelance web sites and it has worked out much better. I recommend anyone else that wants to get their forum jump-started do the same thing. Just goto any freelance web site and post your job. Interested parties will bid on it. This is much more reliable than hiring a “forum posting service”.

  • womenxtra


    I really thought your article is very helpful. my website http://www.womenxtra.co.uk is currently looking for people to post in it. I joined the site point forum and will be posting a similar advert like the pet website did.

    many thanks

  • Jack

    I got my forum rolling by purchasing some fBuck$ and offering it to the guys here:

    $5 USD can go a long way there, and can almost guarantee a large number of posters

  • I have contacted inb0x and their service is really bad. I have sent various emails over and over again. I have already paid them via their system on the website and will be looking into forcing a refund through the Paypal chargeback if I do not hear back from them in the next few days.

  • They didn’t reply to numerous of my requests about their service so I opted to not use them. If you do have to file a complaint with Paypal, make certain that your complaint says they were “paid to deliver digital files”. If you want to know the reason why then read THIS. The entire thread is worth reading, but the 30th explains the digital files.

  • I think it’s a fair enough recommendation for people who are looking to get their forum off the ground. Starting a forum is easy but running a forum is always a difficult ask. Contests are good way to get a forum going but you need to spread the word about the contest initially and offer a suitable reward.

    It is assumed that Paid forum posters lack quality and it’s a waste of money but if you do some research and hire a good company it can work wonders for your forum. As mentioned you should buy the the largest available package as by the time the activity of paid posters is over, you get a good no. of genuine and active members.

  • masala.lazyindianz.com

    I agree ..this is a very neat article :) although I run a blog and not a forum .. I am planning to implement one soon :) will use all these techniques and see which is the best .. thanx once again for a superb article

  • mooncat

    Its a great article and I have enjoyed reading it, starting an online community (forum) is exceptionally hard to do and the easiest in my mind are clan or gaming forums as you are lready together for a common cause, othere are a lot more difficult and freinds and family along are not enough to get your forum where you want it be. Paying for posters galled me to start with, but it does work I have worked with several and to date my favourite have been I think they are quite new but if anything it gives them more drive. I am currently using two or three different vendors.

    One day I should write a comparison site – hmm

  • asif451

    I think it the best artical which i have read about promoting forums.

  • Sunnyraj

    Great article and a really awesome community !

  • Hi
    It’s interesting, is there anyone here who disagree with author?

  • seriously, I prefer the point rather than power leveling

  • Its amazing what people will post in these forums, some of it is quite brilliant!

  • Dantes Peak

    I’m thinking of ordering too!

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