Why do you not use Opera?

[AutisticCuckoo]

@KLB

You just don’t get it do you???

No. And you don’t seem to ‘get it’ that this is not an accessibility issue but a usability issue.

@KLB

You can not break the primary means of keyboard navigation across an entire computer platform and then claim your software is fully keyboard accessible. I will say it again, the tab key is a fundamental means of keyboard navigation.

Then why does Safari/Mac and Firefox/Mac act exactly like Opera does on all platforms: use Tab only for navigation between form controls?

Could it be that this universally required, holy method of keyboard navigation only applies to certain platforms?

@KLB

Also disabled people should not have to change keyboard shortcuts to be able to navigate in Opera.

They don’t. They can use Tab to navigate between form controls, A/Q to navigate between links, S/W to navigate between headings, or D/E to navigate between any elements. They can also use Shift+arrow for spatial navigation, which blows Tab navigation right out of the water. If their disability makes it difficult or impossible to use modifier keys (e.g., if they can only use one hand) they will have to change the settings to use four other keys for this, that’s true. But they’re still way better off than if they were using IE, Firefox, Safari, etc., which do not offer spatial navigation at all.

@KLB

They don’t have to make this change in any other browser.

Except Safari/Mac, Safari/Win and Firefox/Mac. It’s been some time since I tested in Camino/Mac, but if I recall correctly it didn’t offer Tab navigation to links by default. I’m sorry to have to crush your illusion that Opera is alone on it’s crusade against keyboard users.

@KLB

Suck it up, your precious Opera is broken in this department and it negatively affects accessibility in Opera.

That’s really odd, because I use Opera as my main browser and I navigate almost exclusively via the keyboard. How can I do that if it’s inaccessible?

@KLB

Opera gets a lot of things right when it comes to accessibility. You probably have forgotten it, but I frequently hold Opera up as an example of the way to do something right (e.g. zooming instead of text scaling), however, in this case, Opera is broken and needs to be fixed.

Different from IE/Firefox is not the same as broken. Try to understand that.

@KLB

Again the tab key is a fundamental part of keyboard navigation

For you, and many others, but not for everyone. Restricting Tab to form controls is actually an improvement, whether you admit it or not. It allows me, as a constant keyboard user, to jump straight into the first form on a page without having to: (a) press Tab twenty times to bypass the navigation and all links that precede the form; or (b) move my hand to the mouse and click on the first control in the form.

@KLB

there is a customary way that ALL browsers but Opera have made this key work.

Only if you leave out Mac browsers, including the precious Firefox (at least V1.5, which is what I tested in).

@KLB

If Opera Software really want their browser to be fully accessible then they need to fix the tab key such that it works correctly. Short of that the tab key is a very big black mark on Opera’s claim to accessibility.

You can spread this FUD as much as you like, but links are accessible in Opera via the keyboard. It is to do with usability, arguably, not accessibility. And if you want to use the Tab key, Opera lets you do it. Most of its user base don’t, which is why the default settings are what they are.

Please accept that others may have different preferences from yours.

[valius]

Just a reply to the first post of this thread…

I use Opera because:

• i can use mouse tricks;
• i like progress bar;
• i can zoom in/out just by pressing + or -;
• it cashes pages so when i press back it does not reload previous pages(normally) and just shows them;
• it is very easy to add a button of the website to any toolbar(drag&drop);
• opera has speed dial;

…and i love the opera skin that is use(“emil”).

[ethanp]

I will second that I love the speed dial. It certainl is much more useful than the previously used blank page for a newly opened tab. Pretty too.

[tokyoice]

I like FireFox so much better, just my opinion!

[Le_GoogelGuRu]

I prefer Firefox, and probably can’t live without my million extensions.

[AutisticCuckoo]

@NashTax

I like FireFox so much better, just my opinion!

Can’t you please state what it is about Opera that makes you like it less than Firefox? That’s what the purpose of this thread is.

[AutisticCuckoo]

Which parts of the default Opera interface do you dislike, then?

(Of course, you can remove anything you don’t want, but I realise that’s one step too many for those who expect a minimalist default interface.)

[samsm]

Adding to the above, can we also please bring a stop to “I need my plugins”? At least mention one plugin you use that doesn’t exist for Opera.

[Chousho]

@charmedlover

I am working on an article and doing a bit of research beforehand, so I’m posting this here and a few other places. I am not interested in debating, just gathering some quick information; therefore, I do not plan on countering any claims (different for me, eh?).

My question is why do you not use Opera? Just one main reason and try to sum it up in as few words as possible. Also post what browser and OS you do use.

If you use Opera please feel free to explain briefly the main reason that you use Opera.

So I’m looking at the original post, and…

[Le_GoogelGuRu]

@samsm

Adding to the above, can we also please bring a stop to “I need my plugins”? At least mention one plugin you use that doesn’t exist for Opera.

I don’t know if they are available for Opera or not, but I use:

* Adblock Plus 0.7.5.1
* Download Accelerator Plus Intergretation 8.0.65
* Download Statusbar 0.9.4.7
* Free Download Manager Plugin 1.0
* Google Gears 0.1.47.0
* Google Notebook 1.0.0.17
* Google Toolbar for Firefox 3.0.20070217W
* IE Tab 1.3.3.20070528
* NoScript 1.1.4.8.070523
* Pong 2.2.4
* StumbleUpon Toolbar 3.05
* Talkback 2.0.04
* TimeTracker 1.2.2

[dAEk]

150 Popular Firefox Extensions and Opera.

[Le_GoogelGuRu]

That’s an interesting list, dAEk.

[Bleys]

I might not be qualified to answer this as I haven’t tried Opera in a couple of years (I’m happy with Firefox and have it all set up the way I like, and it works well for me, so no real need to switch :)) … but… I think what stymiee might have been getting as it more of an interface thing (i.e., nothing to do with size, but a basic browser in terms of a basic interface). If you don’t need all those features, it’s easier to use a browser that just doesn’t have them, than to use a browser that has a ton of bells and whistles on screen that you have to program your brain to ignore.

[ethanp]

It does point out that in order to reach the abilities of Opera you have to install quite a number of extensions.

[stymiee]

@charmedlover

It does point out that in order to reach the abilities of Opera you have to install quite a number of extensions.

Which is a good thing if you want a basic browser (which most people do). Plus that way you get to pick and choose your own functionality.

[KLB]

@stymiee

Which is a good thing if you want a basic browser (which most people do). Plus that way you get to pick and choose your own functionality.

Indeed I am only using five extensions: Cookie Culler, DOM Inspector (for web development), Flashblock, Long Titles (fixes Firefox’s broken tooltips), and Web Developer.

I have no desire for any other functionality. I have no need for a news reader, email client, RSS reader, or any other extraneous stuff. All I want is a stripped down browser.

[samsm]

@stymiee

Which is a good thing if you want a basic browser (which most people do).

I doubt that. People don’t want a cluttered experience, but the “advanced” functionality of Opera doesn’t particularly get in the way … I’d venture “most” people don’t know it is there. Or care, one way or the other.

[KLB]

@samsm

I doubt that. People don’t want a cluttered experience, but the “advanced” functionality of Opera doesn’t particularly get in the way … I’d venture “most” people don’t know it is there. Or care, one way or the other.

In a way you may have just hit the #1 reason why people don’t do Opera. They just don’t care. MSIE, Firefox or Safari serves their needs and they just don’t care to change. To them it really doesn’t matter what browser they use just like some people don’t care about what kind of car they drive. They simply want to surf the web and whatever is there is good enough. Pitching Opera’s “advanced” functionality won’t do much for these users, because they really don’t care about that functionality and thus they won’t feel the need to try something new.

Firefox can win users easily because it is “cool”, “open source”, or whatever socially conscious mumbo jumbo you want to pin to it plus it isn’t MSIE. Opera doesn’t have any of that BS coolness, its just some obscure browser. That “sounds” complicated because of all the “advanced” features it sports. So what if this isn’t fair or accurate, perceptions rarely are.

[AutisticCuckoo]

@stymiee

Which is a good thing if you want a basic browser (which most people do). Plus that way you get to pick and choose your own functionality.

There’s one argument I don’t really understand. Opera’s download size is smaller than Firefox’s (at least it used to be). Opera’s memory footprint is smaller than Firefox’s.

So you want to download a larger file and run an application that requires more resources, because you don’t want to use certain features?

I could understand this if Opera was a bloated 20MB monster download that brought your computer to its knees at runtime, but Firefox – even without extensions – is (or used to be) larger than Opera with all its features.

[ethanp]

Most of Opera’s features are not integrated into the default interface. The default interface looks much like Firefox’s.

So you want to download a larger file and run an application that requires more resources, because you don’t want to use certain features?

I’ll second that.