Hi,
i have a stupid question. The first question people always ask is how much a site will cost. But i never know how much to take and the thing is that everybody here in germany wants a website but everything is to expensive.
My question is how much would the pro designers here take for a site like this:
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Between $0 and a million dollars.
I know that doesn’t help, but the price really does vary wildly.
One of the better ways to figure out what to charge is to estimate how long it’ll take you, what your hourly rate will be, and then add on a bit of margin (say 10%) to cover the extra time it’ll take you. =p
The rates vary greatly depending on where you’re working and who you’re working for.
The time it’ll take varies by the design, the designer, and the client (how many revisions, etc).
It’s hard to give a fixed number and it’s also one of the hardest questions to come up with your own numbers for.
I know that didn’t help much, but it’s the best I can do. 
A tough issue, but in the end, you have to choose a system that suits you. Different clients will be prepared to pay different amounts. So I find it’s best to establish the client’s preferred budget and then—from your own experience— work out what it’s practical for you to deliver at that price. That’s based on how long it takes you to do such work, and what’s a reasonable hourly rate for you to work at.
The web hasn’t been around long enough for there to be a commonly shared concept of how much web design costs. Everyone knows that you can get a car for anything from $500 to $100,000—but we all know that the cheap car will be a clapped out piece of junk. Websites can similarly vary in price, yet clients fantasize about paying the $500 for every bell and whistle—while they would never go into a BMW showroom and hope to get a new car for $500.
Thats another problem - the time. Ill never know in the beginning how long it would take. I mean if they want a site that means for them all the time EVERYTHING. The text, the images, the videos…
And most off the time they don’t see if a site is a cheap-car-site. They don’t see the technical stuff or if the validation shows 200 errors.
I’m not a pro and if i calculate by the time it would take than i think most off the time i must doing something wrong. I mean is 4 weeks really really to long for a site like i showed you? But maybe it would take 8 weeks, i don’t know.
How long does a pro need for a site like that? 2 days or 3? I really have no clue or relation 
Yes, it’s tough, but I’m finding that if you discuss the site in detail beforehand and establish what’s needed, you can the give a very specific quote, and list the items you have agreed to do. If more items are requested, then quote for them separately.
And most off the time they don’t see if a site is a cheap-car-site. They don’t see the technical stuff or if the validation shows 200 errors.
Yep, so you need to educate them about such things. Even car buyers need to check that the car isn’t a dud under the hood.
is 4 weeks really really to long for a site like i showed you? But maybe it would take 8 weeks, i don’t know.
4 weeks isn’t too long at all, given all the preparation and negotiation that’s involved in planning a site, establishing a design, getting the content etc. You will simply have to find out from experience how long it all takes. Keep detailed records on how long things take, and you’ll build up a reliable picture.
Whether it’s 4 weeks, 8 weeks or 3 days, I think it’s better to think in terms of hours, as there are always delays and there’s waiting time while decisions are made, content is sourced etc. So even if a site takes 80 hours to complete, that may stretch over months if you have to wait for decisions to be made etc.
If you can estimate how many hours the job will take—having pinned down what’s required—tell the client that this could take anywhere from x weeks to y weeks depending on how quickly questions are answered, content is supplied etc.
I’ve been waiting for a week to finish off a job just because the client has been slow to provide some basic details of content. that’s not something I can help.
Web Designing is a service that at no system to follow. You have to create your own system. Evaluate how much your designing skills cost and charge accordingly. Some designers charge their services based on module creation, some charge based on duration of completion, some charge additional services like logo designing, video shooting, photography and etc.
No doubt, when the art-work is finished, the client will request to modify. You can set a limit on motification allowed too. It is tough but there are solutions. Find the solutions that suit you and you will find it is not as tough as you thought 
By weeks i mean hours (8 day, 5 days a week) . But i know what you mean.
Was waiting 1 week for a webspacehoster just to find out that they use a old apache and that that was the reason why my rewrite was not working.
But it’s always like you are the one who is it why something is not working or takes so long. But the client does not see apache, php, mysql and all that stuff. They see pictures and text and can’t understand why this and that is working on site xyz but not here. They also don’t understand that you need to check every browser and think a site looks the same on every pc.
From my point of view the site above is around 2000$, but from the clients view i guess 500.
The other thing is that they sell a product from a company. That means they want the site for this product in there language and the first thing they do is to claw the domain for there land. Sure, the manufacture can make a site that coasts thousands of dollar cause they earn on every piece the reseller sells.
But for them, they earn maybe 20 dollar on one piece and that means 2000€ is a lot of money for a website.
@pinkypainter, how much my skills cost. Well thats another story. If i look around i always feel i have no clue - i’m a amateur.
Nah, that’s cheap. Companies spend $20,000 for a single showing of a TV ad for 20 seconds. They spend tens of thousands on their company cars. They spend thousands per month on rent. They pay their employees thousands per month. A website—that presents their products to the world—is worth more than all those things put together. If 2000€ is too expensive for them, they shouldn’t have a website. A website is there to make them money, not cost them money. It’s wrong to look at is as a cost at all.
@ralph, i was talking about the resellers. Nike, Reebok and so on spend millions for 20 seconds at super bowl. But not the owner of the shoes stores.
The owner of the shoes store earns 2000€ a month and has to pay car, food, kids, apartment from this money. So for them 2000€ for a site is a lot of money.
I understand what you are saying, but I still maintain that a business website is a tool for making money, not losing it. At first it might be an investment, but if the website is worth doing, it will pay for itself before long. If the site doesn’t pay for itself, what’s the point of having it?
The site from our gym pays for itself. Because 80-90% of the new members come from searching the web for a gym in there region.
But a site for just one product, you never know if it will pay.
But i still don’t know how much to take *cry
Does nobody have site examples for what they would take for some sites?
Most of us don’t disclose our exact pricing, largely because it varies so wildly from client to client.
You should figure out what you think the client is willing to pay and what you think your work is worth and use those numbers to pick a price tag.
Design and development included? I mean… what you pointed at is clearly a store, where do you expect to get the eCommerce functionality? I am assuming some type of open source CMS if that is so there is going to a significant learn curve in terms of design. All and all though I would say any CMS based site 5K US is a good number. The fact of the matter is that unless you want to be working for pennies some people just can’t afford things and that is that. There is no reason to lower your price based on the financial standings of a potential customer, unless you really want their business for some odd reason. Its normally the people who can’t afford things in the first place who cause trouble when it comes to collect anyway, might as well avoid that whole mess altogether. You also need to anticipate feature creep if your developing the site, not just creating a mock-up. That is why I would recommend quoting high, feature creep is inevitable because people really have no idea what they want when it comes to web stuff. Part of our job is to work with them and actually define the concrete aspects, all that takes time though. A good indicator of someone who has no idea what they want is they say “like” x and like y. However, you will come to learn that “like” x or “like” NEVER actually means “like” x or “like” y. All of things are important to calculate into the decision, unless you want to be working for nothing in the end.
I only use ExpressionEngine. I don’t torture myself anymore with open source. Its always the same with this open source stuff - no support. If you have a question the open source answer is “it costs you nothing so how can you expect help”.
I know them all (Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, Typo, vBulletin, phpBB…) and customizing them is horrible. And i don’t do shops. Cause shops are to much trouble in functionality and especially in germany because of all the laws.
All and all though I would say any CMS based site 5K US is a good number.
Any?
What brings us to the question when is a CMS needed?
I would never do a site again without a templating system. Cause later you found out that
only with 20 sites you need to change them all if the header, footer or menu changes.
But CMS is another story…
+1 :tup:
I have a pro bono client that’s been dragging their feet since September 2010 in getting me basic content. They want to send me occasional brochures and minutes from board meetings and have me “extract” content. Ain’t happening. In my last communication with them, I offered to resign and give them the opportunity to have someone else complete the site. Haven’t heard back from them since.
Point of the story: it doesn’t matter what you figure will be the projected time frame of a project, the client can gack it up by refusing to provide the content.
I always include this in my contracts:
The Client agrees that any delay or failure to provide the needed text or graphics for the site will be cause for a halt in the Developer’s work on the site. Once the Client provides the needed text or graphics, the Developer will begin work again on the site. The time of the delay will not be counted against the original, agreed-upon timeframe as delineated above. Such a delay, or “hiatus,” can be triggered by e-mail notification from either the Developer or the Client, and will end upon mutual agreement between both Client and Developer. The Developer cannot be responsible for a missed launch date or deadline because of the Client’s tardiness in providing materials for the design, or for unreasonable delays in signing off on acceptance of the “final mockup” site.
In extreme cases, where the Client fails to provide needed text and/or graphical content for the site’s completion within 15 days of the projected final completion date, the Developer reserves the right to stop working on the project; at such time, the final payment becomes due and payable.
I gave the above-mentioned client a hell of a lot more time than 15 days because it was a pro bono contract, we’ve danced around with emails and meetings and so forth, ad infinitum blah. Just be warned, and make sure you have an escape clause.
It depends who you work for , the requirements , the expectations and the budget the client has . You may charge 250 USD for just the template without code in some cases while other times a template can be charged over 10k . A simple logo can range from 200 to 1M .