SitePoint.com

FSUchucky3 · Jul 21, 2003, 17:02

please help, im new at the whole freelance thing. i have a client, and from my contact, i heard that the owner wants his logo to have some simple animation in this. as far as i know, animated gifs on websites are "unprofessional". I also think that flash in this case would be overkill.

i have been doing my own websites and sites for friends for a while now, but this is the first time where im getting paid to do what someone wants. usually my friends give me carte blanche, so i tell them how it is...

any ideas on how i can convince my contact to talk his boss out of it? should i speak w/ the owner directly? is there a "list of negatives" besides that it looks unprofessional? I definately don't want to insult him by saying that his ideas are unprofessional.

thanks in advance,

chuck

vgarcia · Jul 21, 2003, 17:08

As with anything on the Web, it's all a matter of how tasteful it appears. If you make a "classy" animated gif you won't sacrifice your reputation and it will actually enhance the client's site. You just have to know how to do it correctly. If you absolutely cannot create a "tasteful" gif out of what the client wants, inform him of this fact and suggest other avenues. Don't just complain to the client, because they don't want to hear it; they'll be much more receptive to "The animated gif isn't fitting in well with the design, here are some other things we can do" as opposed to "Animated GIFs suck!".

A good rule of thumb for all designers: Don't just complain about a problem; instead, offer solutions. The client will love you for it and keep coming back to you

.

FSUchucky3 · Jul 21, 2003, 17:18

thanks vgarcia,

i havent gotten the signed contract back or the down payment, so i have got some time to figure out what to do...

i haven't seen their logo yet, so i'm kind of in proactive mode here. Logo creation is the one thing im not strong in yet, and with adding animation (I never learned how to make those pesky gifs)... well lets say i don't want to get in over my head and have sub-standard results...

rabmurdy · Jul 21, 2003, 17:19

Yeah, what Vinnie said!

Animated gifs are not un-professional, poorly made animated gifs are worse than un-professional and I think you are getting the two mixed up. The same could be said for flash.

If graphic design ain't your scene then you gotta come clean at the start, find a good one you can refer him to or advise him on rather than trying to get by yourself.

Once you have met the customer and spoke to him for a short time you will be able to find out exactly what he has in mind, remember he might want you to supply the whole thing at your choice. If he wants to have a major say then you are there to advise him, don't stay quiet if you think something ain't right and be forward with your opinion, after all it's you thats the 'expert' in this field not him..

FSUchucky3 · Jul 21, 2003, 17:26

i was going to outsource to someplace like designoutpost.com for my graphic design (i.e. advanced logos) that i knew i wasn't going to be able to make

i guess i will wait to see what the logo looks like before i freak out.

vgarcia · Jul 21, 2003, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabmurdy

If graphic design ain't your scene then you gotta come clean at the start, find a good one you can refer him to or advise him on rather than trying to get by yourself.

Or alternately, you can sub-contract your graphics work to someone you know with a good reputation. I tell my clients up front that I farm out any advanced graphics work (i.e. Flash stuff; I know my way around Photoshop enough to do simple non-interactive stuff); they're OK with it as long as the end result works and it doesn't cost them any extra. Yes I end up taking a small hit in this situation, but it's better than the $0 I'd get from not sealing the deal with a client.

FSUchucky3 · Jul 21, 2003, 17:31

vinnie, i see you are in orlando too. are you freelance only or do you work for a web design firm?

vgarcia · Jul 21, 2003, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSUchucky3

vinnie, i see you are in orlando too. are you freelance only or do you work for a web design firm?

Off Topic:

I work as a Web Developer (mostly ASP and JSP, but some graphics work and a good deal of database/server admin stuff as well) for a real estate/financial investment company actually, but I moonlight as a freelancer

. I'm actually 90% sure I'm moving to Philadelphia next summer though.

FSUchucky3 · Jul 21, 2003, 17:42

cool, sounds very interesting. good luck w/ everything.

hopefully you will still contribute to sitepoint. i have read many of your posts here...

chuck

vgarcia · Jul 21, 2003, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSUchucky3

cool, sounds very interesting. good luck w/ everything.

hopefully you will still contribute to sitepoint. i have read many of your posts here...

chuck

Well come moving time I'm going to take a break (I'm also getting married around then

), but I still plan on being staff as long as SP wants me here

.

MG315 · Jul 21, 2003, 17:53

tell the client that the filesize is smaller and quality is better if you use flash instead of gif - of course you must be truthful.

Zenith · Jul 21, 2003, 23:47

I've had in similar situations too, sometimes it's moving gif, sometimes customer wants his face to the front page, sometimes they ask awful colours etc. What you must do (like said here earlier) is to offer solutions. We are professionals of this business (*cough*

) and it's our duty to tell customer what's good solution and how things should be done. If customer has anything between his ears he listens and does it your way or at least half of it. Bring out points like "it's doesn't fit to the layout", "it scares possible customers away" etc.

But - in the end - customer has the final word. We had a case few months ago where we spend almost half a week of work trying to make a facelift to one of our customers. When we had a nice and professional look she (it was she, yes) insisted that certain images should be changed to a cliche-kind-of-images. Well we had discussions about it and said that it's not good idea and it looks sh*t, but she insisted. Well we changed it and then she realized it doesn't look good and instead of changing the one image back she started to bring other points out that were wrong. Finally the result was: let's not make facelift after all because she was prepared to pay like $100 for week's work. By the way I smoked few ciggies while those conversations. One should never do business with friends, relatives or clients that have some kinda extra bond to you like "well since we're your neighbours..."

Ahem, what was I saying...kinda got to the offtopic track. Oh yes: no matter how long you discuss and how good points you bring it's the client's own money he/she spends. My experiences say that people who are very pig-headed in one thing cause you troubles in other things too. So if he insists a 200x300px pink logo jumping around the screen while his own picture in it and some .wav running background I'd think is this client really worth the effort.

-Z-

asterix · Jul 25, 2003, 12:13

Well often its an ethical decision.

Do you care enough about the issue to turn the job down, and loose the contract?

If you can answer that question clearly then the design decision is made, isn't it? You don't have to put your name it later if its that god awful.

Jul 21, 2003, 17:02	#1
FSUchucky3 SitePoint Zealot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 174	how to talk a client out of animated gifs??? please help, im new at the whole freelance thing. i have a client, and from my contact, i heard that the owner wants his logo to have some simple animation in this. as far as i know, animated gifs on websites are "unprofessional". I also think that flash in this case would be overkill. i have been doing my own websites and sites for friends for a while now, but this is the first time where im getting paid to do what someone wants. usually my friends give me carte blanche, so i tell them how it is... any ideas on how i can convince my contact to talk his boss out of it? should i speak w/ the owner directly? is there a "list of negatives" besides that it looks unprofessional? I definately don't want to insult him by saying that his ideas are unprofessional. thanks in advance, chuck

Jul 21, 2003, 17:19	#4
rabmurdy Alt+F4= User Control ;-) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ecosse Posts: 398	Yeah, what Vinnie said! Animated gifs are not un-professional, poorly made animated gifs are worse than un-professional and I think you are getting the two mixed up. The same could be said for flash. If graphic design ain't your scene then you gotta come clean at the start, find a good one you can refer him to or advise him on rather than trying to get by yourself. Once you have met the customer and spoke to him for a short time you will be able to find out exactly what he has in mind, remember he might want you to supply the whole thing at your choice. If he wants to have a major say then you are there to advise him, don't stay quiet if you think something ain't right and be forward with your opinion, after all it's you thats the 'expert' in this field not him.. __________________ "If something is too hard,give it up. The moral my boy is too never try anything" "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand" http://www.tinyplanet.org/

Jul 21, 2003, 17:53	#11
MG315 SitePoint Guru Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 761	tell the client that the filesize is smaller and quality is better if you use flash instead of gif - of course you must be truthful. __________________ Bill Erickson New Media Entrepreneur

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Jul 21, 2003, 17:08	#2
vgarcia ☆★☆★ Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: in transition Posts: 21,423	As with anything on the Web, it's all a matter of how tasteful it appears. If you make a "classy" animated gif you won't sacrifice your reputation and it will actually enhance the client's site. You just have to know how to do it correctly. If you absolutely cannot create a "tasteful" gif out of what the client wants, inform him of this fact and suggest other avenues. Don't just complain to the client, because they don't want to hear it; they'll be much more receptive to "The animated gif isn't fitting in well with the design, here are some other things we can do" as opposed to "Animated GIFs suck!". A good rule of thumb for all designers: Don't just complain about a problem; instead, offer solutions. The client will love you for it and keep coming back to you .

Jul 21, 2003, 17:18	#3
FSUchucky3 SitePoint Zealot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 174	thanks vgarcia, i havent gotten the signed contract back or the down payment, so i have got some time to figure out what to do... i haven't seen their logo yet, so i'm kind of in proactive mode here. Logo creation is the one thing im not strong in yet, and with adding animation (I never learned how to make those pesky gifs)... well lets say i don't want to get in over my head and have sub-standard results...

Jul 21, 2003, 17:26	#5
FSUchucky3 SitePoint Zealot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 174	i was going to outsource to someplace like designoutpost.com for my graphic design (i.e. advanced logos) that i knew i wasn't going to be able to make i guess i will wait to see what the logo looks like before i freak out.

Jul 21, 2003, 17:31	#7
FSUchucky3 SitePoint Zealot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 174	vinnie, i see you are in orlando too. are you freelance only or do you work for a web design firm?

Jul 21, 2003, 17:42	#9
FSUchucky3 SitePoint Zealot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 174	cool, sounds very interesting. good luck w/ everything. hopefully you will still contribute to sitepoint. i have read many of your posts here... chuck

Jul 21, 2003, 23:47	#12
Zenith Santos L Halper Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 641	I've had in similar situations too, sometimes it's moving gif, sometimes customer wants his face to the front page, sometimes they ask awful colours etc. What you must do (like said here earlier) is to offer solutions. We are professionals of this business (cough ) and it's our duty to tell customer what's good solution and how things should be done. If customer has anything between his ears he listens and does it your way or at least half of it. Bring out points like "it's doesn't fit to the layout", "it scares possible customers away" etc. But - in the end - customer has the final word. We had a case few months ago where we spend almost half a week of work trying to make a facelift to one of our customers. When we had a nice and professional look she (it was she, yes) insisted that certain images should be changed to a cliche-kind-of-images. Well we had discussions about it and said that it's not good idea and it looks sh*t, but she insisted. Well we changed it and then she realized it doesn't look good and instead of changing the one image back she started to bring other points out that were wrong. Finally the result was: let's not make facelift after all because she was prepared to pay like $100 for week's work. By the way I smoked few ciggies while those conversations. One should never do business with friends, relatives or clients that have some kinda extra bond to you like "well since we're your neighbours..." Ahem, what was I saying...kinda got to the offtopic track. Oh yes: no matter how long you discuss and how good points you bring it's the client's own money he/she spends. My experiences say that people who are very pig-headed in one thing cause you troubles in other things too. So if he insists a 200x300px pink logo jumping around the screen while his own picture in it and some .wav running background I'd think is this client really worth the effort. -Z-

Jul 25, 2003, 12:13	#13
asterix SitePoint Guru Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 848	Well often its an ethical decision. Do you care enough about the issue to turn the job down, and loose the contract? If you can answer that question clearly then the design decision is made, isn't it? You don't have to put your name it later if its that god awful.