Education - career change

Community
1

Hello good people,

I am 37, from Toronto, Canada trying to break into web design/development field. For the past year and a half I have been working on my HTML/CSS skills as well as experimenting with some Fireworks/Photoshop. I work full time and can only study weeknights/weekends.

I would appreciate your advice on the following - please, answer each question separately if you don’t mind.

  1. I know that most web designers/web developers are self-taught and the funny thing is that I heard THE BEST ONES are SELF-TAUGHT. However, I heard that some companies just won’t hire you if you don’t have a degree or diploma. Is it true ?

  2. If an answer to my first question is “yes, it makes a difference having diploma/degree”, what would be my best options considering my age and full time employment.

Again I appreciate your time and effort in responding.

2

thanks Ted.

Sorry I didn’t quite understand your last sentence …

“at 37 the idea of getting a ‘college’ experience is far less of an issue so you can simply focus on how you learn, how you want to interact, and if your goal is just a piece of paper or an academic study.”

Did you mean it’s NOT an option for me or …?

3

There are indeed companies that require a degree, some even require one in the field, but that’s rare and even rarer in web design where there are very few schools offering any sort of direct degree.

This is generally something you find at larger firms and becomes more important as you climb up the ladder from a production team member to management. Not all companies require it, but many do, or say they do… rules get broken for great candidates in some companies, in others your resume never gets past HR.

If you feel this could be a burden and want a degree while working you would either need to pursue night school or online classes. There are pros and cons of each, and it’s highly dependant on what you want; at 37 the idea of getting a ‘college’ experience is far less of an issue so you can simply focus on how you learn, how you want to interact, and if your goal is just a piece of paper or an academic study.

4

Some jobs require a degree (I’m talking about jobs in the UK), but most are looking for experience and a portfolio of work that stands out.

I’d stick to what you’re doing by teaching yourself in your spare time and try and build a few sites that you’re really proud of. Get them added to a portfolio which has an equally great design and try applying for some jobs.

Starting a blog about design or coding, or your experiences learning web design could even be beneficial and show potential employers that you really care about what your doing.

5

There are a number of employers who require a degree in computer science, a related course like design, or a specific course in web design / development (from accredited universities) so that’s certainly true, however education is not a replacement for experience and a good portfolio and many of those employers are coming to the realisation that someone with a good solid portfolio can do the job as well as someone without anything in the education side of things. Not having a degree will certainly limit where you can apply, but as there’s so much work and so many businesses out there it honestly shouldn’t stop you finding a good position.

It really depends, if you are the kind of person who enjoys education and want to spend the years and money it takes to get a degree then go ahead as it won’t hurt to have the certificate in your favour, but if you’re not that inclined towards education (like me), you may simply find that going solo and building up a solid portfolio of work (whether for yourself, for friends and family or for local businesses or charities for experience) will give you an equally good foundation to work from.

This is something I would also highlight as an excellent way to get experience, having a portfolio is all well and good but standing out from the crowd is important in getting a job from the other candidates. Seek out opportunities where they may occur and get involved in trying to build up a name for yourself, it’ll probably take as long to get a strong portfolio as a degree would (in respect to getting confidence and skills in equal measure) but you certainly can do well for yourself if you’re willing to put the time and effort into the role. Be creative with the types of things you undertake online and look at how you can market your skills well! :slight_smile:

6

Hi willsmith727,Ted S,AlexDawson,

Thanks for your previous pieces of advice. I appreciate them.

I joined Centennial College (Toronto) evening web design courses part-time. My short-term goal is to get a job as Front End Developer which would involve mandatory knowledge of HTML/CSS/Javascript.

Please,see the link for the course I am taking now:

http://db2.centennialcollege.ca/ce/coursedetail.php?CourseCode=CG-093

I found some opinions on the web that to get into the field as front end developer would require minimum a year (I guess it depends on the time you are ready to contribute into studying).

Questions:

  1. The course I am taking now is part of certificate program
    http://db2.centennialcollege.ca/ce/certdetail.php?CertificateCode=7653
    which includes “INTRO TO FLASH PRODUCTION” which I don’t think I wanna do because I don’t feel like I wanna do Flash stuff.

The course I am taking now is also part of certificate program

http://db2.centennialcollege.ca/ce/certdetail.php?CertificateCode=7163
which is more about programming. Considering my background in credit cards industry, it would probably make sense to learn Java because most financial institutions use Java as a platform and need developers. However, I understand that before going into Java stuff, I need a solid knowledge and experience of HTML/CSS/Javascript if I want to be a well-rounded developer (that’s why I am talking about starting as a front end developer).

I would appreciate your thoughts on the above. As well as any step-by-step advice if you were in my situation.

7

Sorry I am kind of late with my response.

8

A degree is an entry point for many jobs, and Web Design/Development is one of them. Sure, people on here will say that they landed jobs without, and that you don’t need one, but a simple look through the vast majority of job listings out there will show the fact that you need a degree to get at least 75% of the jobs out there.

To be frank, any other diplomas or certification you achieve that is directly related to Web Design only reflects the fact that you don’t have a degree. If you’ve got a bunch of words in the education section of your CV/Resume then the average employer is expecting to see that these words represent a degree programme you’ve studied.

AlexDawson hit the nail on the head with his comments. If you’re seriously considering getting into the industry then you should towards getting either a Computer Science or Graphic Design degree as they are the norm in this industry (again, don’t let other people sway this fact, check the job listings for proof). If you have to study it part-time, then so be it, and look towards the experience as a way of improving your job prospects and learning things you’ll have never had the chance to learn before.

If you’re fundamentally against getting a degree you’ll need a great portfolio to stand out from the crowd. It’s true that many of the great designers and developers out there are self-taught in many aspects, but many of them have degrees anyway. You don’t need a degree, but for the average people like us it’s really required. If you are extremely talented at both designing and selling yourself then a portfolio alone will be enough to get you noticed.

9

Thanks for your feedback,ULTiMATE.

What are your thoughts about part of my question as to when one can start with Java…e.g. can Java be used in building websites? Part of my certificate program is Flash which I don’t feel like studying and paying for. So I am hesitating if I should pursue certificate in programming where you can choose between say Java and Visual Studio Net.

How can one define the point where he knows he/she can be good in programming ?

10

Java’s branch into web programming is JavaServer Pages and in my opinion it is too out-of-date to find a sustainable income in supporting. It was built as an answer to classic ASP and PHP, and as classic ASP is dead and PHP is a zombie being constantly revived by its undying support I think it’s safe to say that if you’re starting out you need to start out with a proven language with jobs.

If you want to be a straight-up programmer on desktop applications then from what I hear Java is still the big king when it comes to jobs. A lot of the people I graduated with ended up as Java code monkeys and still are.

I am a ASP.NET/C# developer by trade, and I landed my job simply because I was one of very few graduates who came out of university with work experience with C#. If anything, I’ve found that the .NET work pays better for graduates, and has a sustainable future with Microsoft investing a lot of time and energy into turning it into a great language. It’s a fantastic language to use, and I would highly recommend it.

There are a ton of other languages out there that have a good working future. Python is a fantastic language that really needs more support, and whereas there aren’t loads of jobs in it the companies with the sense to use it for their products will often be a lot more fun to work at.

However, I must be frank in that most employers will expect a degree, and certification only exists to improve ones knowledge. I’d say that less than 1% of employers will care about certification, whereas at least two thirds of them will care about degree-level education. The best advice I can give you is to learn for fun, but if you’re going to spend money on education then invest in a degree. It takes time and it is costly, but you’ll be a better person after it, and a lot of jobs and degrees will allow for part-time study. During my time at university there were many mature students studying part-time, and most of them loved their time at university and left with good degrees and entered the workforce in good jobs. One guy I knew who was 56 when he finished is now a manager, after six months in an entry-level position at HP.

Programming is one of those jobs where you’ll always be better in a couple of years. When I look back on code I had written six months I almost feel sick when I see unnecessarily complicated code, or when I had hacked together a solution for something that already had a library available.

Programming is a thankless job, and nearly everything you tirelessly build will be obsolete, broken or unused very soon after you finish the project. Also, programmers have an almost brutal requirement to continuously learn and put faith in new technology. As a result, you’re always learning, and eventually any vocational knowledge you gain from learning is completely useless.

To answer your question, you know you’re a good programmer when you can sufficiently do your job, whilst being able to continuously build your skills to become better at it.

11

Thanks ULTiMATE. I appreciate your advice - doesn’t sound optimistic :slight_smile: but you never know. As you mentioned, I am just gonna try to enjoy what I am doing and start from there.

Thanks again.