New York Times article: much of the US has no broadband

Cool, it takes the poor decisions of clients, and/or designers out of the equation. I am installing it on my phone currently, may seem late but I did just ‘crawl from beneath a rock I’d been living under’ :).

On my sites I am pushing for design that supports both low and high bandwidth. This way my clients can ensure that their customers see it in a way they want and this ‘way’ does not need to penalize the customers in the process - sometimes even if my client doesn’t see the value I still code/script it this way, and when asked ‘Why does it look different on my phone’ I say ‘That’s the way the web works now a days’.

We love our Poes. She adds flavor to the place along with tons of knowledge that I, for one, do not have.

Bear, Comic Sans MS isn’t a bad font at all. What people have done with it over the last decade is the problem. I saw Ryan Reese’s old site with Comic Sans as the body font and went, “Wow, that really looks good!” It’s the most wrongly used and most-often abused font on the Innertoobz, no doubt, but designers can and do misuse just about any font out there without the font being at fault. How many times has Helvetica, the creme brulee of fonts, been used in situations where a more “ornate” sans-serif or even an elegant serif would have better fit the bill?

[ot][font=“comic sans ms”]Frankly I’ve seen several comic fonts that would be better than Comic Sans. What I like about Comic Sans is only that it’s a non-script-but-hand-written-looking font that’s widely available.

That said, a comic I used to read had a good list of reasons Comic Sans isn’t a good font (link). The I/i issue is pretty important: this artist uses a comic who capitalises I only for “caps” and standalone word “I” and otherwise uses another form when inside a word (since the font is technically all capital letters). Example would be the font used in Calvin and Hobbes. Nice, readable block letters.[/font]
http://www.remindblog.com/2010/04/01/avoid-comic-sans/[/ot]

Excellent link, Poes. The kerning issue alone is a big no-no for the font.

The internet on a whole is a privilege not a necessity. Having said that I have never seen any numbers/studies actually comparing increased revenue when a site was made more “accessible” or “low-bandwidth” friendly – so call me skeptical. It is all about the money why invest more to gain little or nothing – it makes no sense! – unless all your going for is a little pat on the back from your local sitepoint wizard, design site, etc – than it makes perfect sense. I think it is complete none-sense to serve up a site completely lifeless and looking like 1998 to a *paying customer because of a none-paying one – just saying.

he internet on a whole is a privilege not a necessity.

[font=“comic sans ms”]We wish! But unfortunatley more and more government services are going internet-only, which I’m 100% against (unless everyone has a computer with a decent connection, you’re preventing (guess who? the usual, poor and undereducated and under-represented) from participating fully in functioning government and life). In fact, I was surprised to find out when I applied for welfare (yup, I’m a rat) that one MUST have a computer… and that computer MUST use Adobe to open their “required” PDFs (which does not run on any machines in this house of ours, Adobe hates our OSes). I seriously wonder what all those really poor people living in rentals do? Do they really all have computers?

Our energy company has stopped mailing forms where we fill in our meter readings. They must now be filled online.

Now I’m no fan of all these pretentious kiddies sitting on twitter today screaming “WHERE’S MY WIKIPEDIA? F*** WIKIPEDIA AND THEIR BLACKOUT I HAVE A TERM PAPER DUE!!!”[1] and other entitled crap, as they’ve never NOT had computers and internet, but on the other hand, kids growing up without regular computer access now do have a real disadvantage when they hit college, if they can even apply (paper forms cost money… just do it online!).

We have a Senior Center set up where seniors can get things like renewed prescriptions and set up appointments and fill out forms on public computers (and also classes to teach them) because more services are slowly moving to internet-only and even stopping phone service!

Frankly, that the woman in the article had to drive 3 freaking hours simply to contact her governor is a shame and a scandal, because the public MUST be able to contact their representatives in a democracy. It’s fine for a dictatorship or an auto-/pluto-/timocracy, but if everyone must be able to fully participate and if the internet continues to become the sole means of participation, then the excuse that “well those rednecks shouldn’t have moved out there” (as if everyone can leave where they were born without a load of money… what, you mean it’s their own fault they didn’t leave their social support behind and walk away with a bag hanging off a stick over their shoulders?? Haha) no longer holds up.

US Rural electrification had the same reasons. The folks in the cities paid for farmers and rural people to have electricity and cable (telegraph, later telephone lines). Unless there was a scam inside I’m unaware of, there was pretty much no money to be made.

And yes, people building websites add a crapload of garbage because it’s the hip trendy thing to do today (let’s randomly add 4 Javascript libraries because everyone needs to see a carousel of stock photos!) can make a website (and therefore a service) completely unusable by those without some speedy internets connection.[/font]

[1]http://twitter.com/herpderpedia

Wow oddz, you have had controversial comments before but wow! Yes many websites are just about money; however there are an increasing number of sites that have nothing to do about revenue. People that have kids in many places of the world have to get their homework/details/assignments from school webpages, Wikipedia the most widely used site in America does require money to run but is not about increasing revenue. Every increasingly up-to-minute weather forecasts and alerts have shifted to the Internet; how is it not a necessity for a mid-western farmer not to know that a massive Tornado is hurdling toward their home/family/livestock? What about banks that are offering preferential deals to only their web-based customers? How about the millions of people that have trouble paying for their healthcare so rely on medical information on the web. This is not about privilege it is about equality - just saying.

…when a site was made more “accessible” or “low-bandwidth” friendly – so call me skeptical. It is all about the money why invest more to gain little or nothing – it makes no sense! – unless all your going for is a little pat on the back from your local sitepoint wizard…

How do you propose providing access for the billions of not-as-financially-privileged people in the world to access our bloated wiz-bang pages. Here is another idea why don’t we just restrict Anti-viral HIV drugs to Africa because the super poor people with HIV and AIDS can’t afford it - oh wait we do do this. I guess your argument has merit then, silly me.

Having an education is a privilege not a necessity. More importantly though surely it is the responsibility of the school or teacher to make assignments accessible not the person who developed their software unless they lied to get a sale.

Again, privilege not a necessity. It is privilege to know that tornado is coming before they actually see it. Whether it be radio, television or the web – all are privileges. I mean the way you sound a time before the internet everything was mere chaos but the thing is people got along just fine.

As a web based customer you need to be able to access the web. if your not able to access the web than your not a web based customer. Again though… not a necessity maybe unfair but life is unfair and catering to the majority is just business.

If your not in dire need of care than it is a privilege not a necessity. I mean… if you get shot or have any type of traumatic injury they are obligated to at the very least get you stable. Of course there is going to be a hefty fine but that is a choice. How did people get their information before the web I ever so wonder…

These are all conveniences. Whether it be becoming informed at a instant notice, researching your medical problems on the internet or forgetting your ego asking for hard copies of an assignment. All are accessible in some form without the internet. That internet may make it more convenient but convenient does not does not equate to a necessity.

I’m not way saying any of this is *fair but such is life. Do I try my best within client guidelines and requirements to make my work accessible with a small foot print – of course. However, it is not the thing that is going to stop me from denying a request. That is really all I am saying.

You obviously don’t agree but this is not equal for all students. Yes the teachers and school will create a separate process so the students aren’t excluded. While this should be expected it means that we are enforcing a separate tier for those that have high bandwidth and those on dial-up or low bandwidth. I can attest to the fact that our homework/school communication system hasn’t placed high value in accessibility, which in my view as a Web worker is wrong.

Ok so let’s pretend that dramatic weather is not increasing, one thing that is true in our area is that radio stations don’t run news or even alerts like they used to because we Canadians are very connected. This same thing is true for news; unless you have satellite T.V. (which many but not all rural people have, you don’t have access to the 24 hr news channels); in these situations you get the information later. The thing is not about if you can get this info, it is can you get it in time to save lives, I don’t see this as being a privilege.

Would you be saying this if you lost your job (like so many people worldwide), couldn’t find work for an extended period (like so many people worldwide)? Not everyone that is poor are stupid, undeserving, less value to society… I don’t think you were suggesting that, but because the web has become such an important tool for communication current information, we should not build it to exclude, while we have a chance to include.
[/QUOTE]

A broad goal for humans is for advancement, while you are completely right that people got their information before the web, things in their world have changed. More people work, distracted by their busier lives, so the word of mouth network that exists today is different, more fragmented than in yester years. Libraries are being shutdown as cities cope with crumbling infrastructure and are rationalizing taking the money from Library operating cost, land taxes, and staff to fund these things; not the same as in the past. The people in North America that do some of our dirtiest jobs don’t make enough for good health coverage; there is a lot of supportive information in the U.S.A. Hall of Records (on the Internet). So they should be excluded from accessing health information when it would be simple to ensure that the web is not bloated and the information is not written at a scholar level; this is a choice by web-designers and their customers. If web-designers recommended that this is the way it should be done, not optionally then it more likely would be. That is why I encourage new and existing web designers to think and advocate accessibility and low bandwidth options. It is not too hard to become proficient or knowledgable in these areas so it doesn’t mean is has to cost more or take more time.

Although somewhat true today - this is becoming increasingly less-true.

Philosophically we clearly have different ideologies. I understand, that it is unlikely that I will change your mind. For my part, I hope this discussion helps others decide which type of thinking they want to bring to their web design.

Regards,
Steve

BTW oddz, I know that you do a lot of good in this community so I am not trying to disparage you or what you do; I only have a strong difference in opinion for this part of a much wider universe.

Regards,
Steve

Having an education is a privilege not a necessity.

It’s a necessity in a democracy. That’s why public schools were invented: uneducated masses are unable to participate in decision-making of their country (yes yes, I realise that in real life education is crap and nobody actually learns anything and democracy is a sham and doesn’t work on human beings, but, I certainly fear the alternatives…).

Again, privilege not a necessity. It is privilege to know that tornado is coming before they actually see it. Whether it be radio, television or the web – all are privileges. I mean the way you sound a time before the internet everything was mere chaos but the thing is people got along just fine.

[font=“comic sans ms”]Staying alive and safe is a privilege and not a right in your country? Where the heck do you live??
Severe weather warning stations were also paid for with tax money because public safety was important. No, tornado and hurricane warnings (and in my country, dike breaches) aren’t considered niceties. Most western governments would disagree with you. Evacuation notices are also considered necessary, and no way no how would anyone in my country consider it a “privilege” for only certain people. But here, they still broadcast emergencies on Radio Rijnmond, and when we had that huge toxic cloud disaster at Moerdijk the website http://www.crisis.nl/ failed entirely (you can see it’s still in a sad, sad state of fail) and hopefully this will keep radio and tv as options (more people have a TV than have internet connection even here).

I have no elaborate rose-coloured fantasies about the Good Old Days. They freakin’ sucked.

But yeah, back in the day, before internets, we had radio. It had these things called “weather reports”, and my point is they are slowly moving to only being online for more and more communities. That’s dangerous.
Public safety is one of those things the government has said everyone gets to have, so it’s one of those things we pay taxes for. How about people without internets don’t have to pay all those silly taxes anymore, if more and more communities decide all public service announcements are available on internet only? That would at least make it more fair.

Yes, only the rich and connected should be warned against severe weather, and after all, staying alive and safe is a privilege and not a right (the UN would disagree with you there about living being a privilege, but on the other hand the only thing the UN is good for is writing angry letters when dictators commit genocide and whatnot). [/font]

More importantly though surely it is the responsibility of the school or teacher to make assignments accessible not the person who developed their software unless they lied to get a sale.

Hahahahahahah… thanks, I needed a good laugh. Or do you really think teachers have control over that sort of thing? Hehe, it’s all bureaucracy, these things are set at state levels and higher. Hahahaha.

As a web based customer you need to be able to access the web. if your not able to access the web than your not a web based customer.

[font=“comic sans ms”]This here is the problem with people confusing capitalism with a form of government. We are not Customers, we are Citizens. We have rights. We demand our governments fear us. Corporations aren’t people, and the relationship between people and the internet is NOT purely commercial, no matter how hard capitalist scumbag corporations try to make us think so (they’re also trying to convince us they created the Internet. Lawlz). Don’t let them brainwash you. I’m not talking about people “needing cable tv” so they can catch the ball game. I’m talking about how society works and how it’s changing. Entertainment is, indeed, about customers and corporations, and I don’t give a flying foo about that (mostly because I can safely believe it’s all Justin Bieberish rubble).

Now I realise your response was about banking. Do you think adults living on their own can survive without being able to use a bank account (server didn’t go far enough, I’m not talking about mere “discounts as a web customer”, I’m talking about how our local branches are all closing in favour of internet banking and if you don’t have internets you get to travel to the other end of the province to talk to a human)??? You can (correctly) argue that “having a bank account isn’t a right” but you can’t seriously live without it. No, Last Man Standing doesn’t count.[/font]

[…common things people do…]All are accessible in some form without the internet.

Less and less so. Like my recent contacts with the government. Nothing is (legally) preventing (public) services from moving entirely online, and budgets are always tight aren’t they? and it’s always cheaper to move everything online, and replace your secretary with some automated chat bot, and therefore inaccessible to those not connected. That’s my point.
but…

Re: researching medical data online: frankly, there’s a high ratio of crap to actual facts regarding medicine online. I don’t like anyone without medical training researching stuff online. It’s where you get garbage like that Yahoo Answers where someone asks “My teeth are kinda loose and hurt. What might it be?”
Instead of recommending the person go to a freakin dentist, the “top-rated” answer was “You probably have scurvy. Eat more fruits.” The internets is full of derp-tards and our piss-poor education systems are not teaching people how to do research or how to think or how to review information critically. People tend to believe everything they read. They think if it’s on Wikipedia or J-random-health-blog, it must be true. Plus it matches what someone’s sister’s roomate’s boyfriend’s aunt’s chihuahua’s symptoms were this one time. It’s where the “vaccines cause autism” rumours spread in, the cesspool of the uninformed and uneducated.

Same here. I can either rant to myself alone in a dark corner or I can rant in a discussion with smart people like oddz on my privileged internets… and yes, here, I agree it’s certainly a privilege, and one I don’t take lightly.

Psh, nobody gives a foo about accessibility. It ranks somewhere around which shade of brown is healthiest for turds of sewer rats.

Agreed that much of the online medical info is not great; however for the many people that can not get any sort of healthcare for non-critical yet still important health-care without have a big-limit on their credit card, the web is a place where they can look for information and filter based on their views, education and knowledge. While this varies a great deal amongst the population it is better than not having anything at all as there are certainly areas of accurate medical information too; hopefully more than less connect with these?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, and one of the points for me to have stuck my neck out in such a prominent way, is to try to get others to ensure that the sites they design should get much better at this - it will not change on its’ own, nor will big business invest in this, so I think it is up to us - that is of course if the people don’t try to revolt first :slight_smile:

Regards,
Steve