NS Syndrome... When do I quit?

[K. Wolfe]

For a while I have been suffering from NS syndrome ("Nothing to Show Syndrome"). This is the terrible state of not being able to complete an assignment because you wish to keep reforming the design. I know a few other sitepointers who are also suffering from it, without naming some (most cases not as bad as mine). NS syndrome has really stopped me from completing websites. I want your opinions on how you go about finishing a website, and let me know if you suffer from it.

Anywho. I have been working with websites, on and off for about four years now, been a mostly active member here on sitepoint for that time, and I have literally nothing to show for it. I have no projects up online right now (other than one in progress right now, myarcadecraze.com).

When/how should I know when to quit on the design and move to content?

[vgarcia]

When it's good enough.

Seriously, you are probably your own worst critic. Just get something up and released to show for the work you've done. You can then take feedback from actual users (not the annoying self-critic in your head) and incorporate that into changes in the site, thus making it better and more widely used.

[molona]

Agreed. And don't worry, as you said many people here suffer from that syndrome (me included... spend too much time reading posts )

[Young Twig]

If I'm working for a client, and I've got nothing to show, I show them nothing. I show them what I've come up with, that is, which to me looks like absolute poop. Sometimes they like it. Generally they don't. If they do, though, you're in luck.

If you're working for yourself... I suppose you just to have to do the same thing. Come up with something that isn't absolute trash and focus on something else.

[fisherboy]

A little "back to basics" stuff.

What is the point of the site?

In general, most clients want something on the web that will generate income, generate feedback or provide information (mostly all three) as well as some sites that seek purely to entertain or inform with no real actions required by the visitor.

What does your client want? Even more worrying, is your client you?

You have to achieve the desired outcome of your work. If your chosen outcome is to have the the most beautiful website since 1990, give up now.

Had a look at your site. It is fine and will work. Get some b****y content in it, promote it and see what happens. I have NEVER seen a completed site. They are ALL works in progress. As you learn from SitePoint feedback (see Vinnie's comment), visitor statistics, change it to make it better, faster, stronger, more appealing, whatever.

OK. Now for the hard part. Add content. Load it. Promote it. Then learn.

You are not perfect. I am not perfect. Your site is not perfect. The only way to get it closer to perfect is get the b****y thing up and running, then improve.

That's my little rant for the day. Hope it helps.

Go, Kyle, go.

[JerXs]

HeHeHe;

You are not alone! this type of thinking kept me from launching a site for a long time.

I have a few sites launched now and granted they are not the best but they are making me some money while i am working on my bread and butter "fingers crossed" and getting it ready for take off

[molona]

Yes, but I do understand him... In the last 5 months I have started 5 different projects (personal projects).... none of them is published

[K. Wolfe]

Originally Posted by molona

Yes, but I do understand him... In the last 5 months I have started 5 different projects (personal projects).... none of them is published

Oh absolutely, I go through it, my biggest thing though is "redesigning" my portfolio, which has actually never made up up to the internet, other than a one month stretch last year.

OK, so down to what i really want to be discussed, should those who have this problem perhaps work on content first? Making blank documents with the content that would be easily designed around with css for when we do get our project up and going. Any other suggestions?

[Tygatur]

I'm learning web programming for 4 years now and like you I haven't ever published a page because I didn't want to pollute the internet with another one of these "under construction" or "no-real-content" web pages.
It's really frustrating sometimes if you tell someone that you are doing webpages as a hobby but you can't show any example.

I rather toy around with scripts and try things out but I seldom apply this knowledge to something really useful (except math homework ).
Yet it's something wonderful to create these things even if they don't have a purpose.

Most people can't understand these reasons and think it's just a bad excuse. But I don't care any more about it.
And those people are often the ones who have their ready-made-blog with boring content and think they are something special now. They haven't understood what the web is really for.

[vgarcia]

Originally Posted by K. Wolfe

OK, so down to what i really want to be discussed, should those who have this problem perhaps work on content first? Making blank documents with the content that would be easily designed around with css for when we do get our project up and going. Any other suggestions?

I find that this approach works best for me, because 1) I don't worry about how the content looks in layout and I can focus on just writing, and 2) having a bunch of documents ready to go lights a fire under me to get some kind of layout going for a site.

[Wolf_22]

...What you need to do is grab your left leg while flapping like a chicken with your free hand. Spin 12 times counter clock-wise while still flapping and singing a national anthem of your nationality. Do all this while trying to blow a bubble gum bubble as big as your head.

All you need to do is get away from the computer for a few. Go out, go to a mall, go to an Outback steakhouse, go see a movie, go for a walk. Do something... Whatever you do, just get away from the whole computer scene for awhile... Then when you come back, you'll be golden.

[K. Wolfe]

Originally Posted by Wolf_22

...What you need to do is grab your left leg while flapping like a chicken with your free hand. Spin 12 times counter clock-wise while still flapping and singing a national anthem of your nationality. Do all this while trying to blow a bubble gum bubble as big as your head.

All you need to do is get away from the computer for a few. Go out, go to a mall, go to an Outback steakhouse, go see a movie, go for a walk. Do something... Whatever you do, just get away from the whole computer scene for awhile... Then when you come back, you'll be golden.

Haha, did I mention I'm a causual designer? I only spend about two hours a day, and not every day on a website, especially lately with my baseball schedule.

[nickohrn]

I have been having this problem as of late. I'm definitely not an awesome designer. I'm more of a web programmer and coder. However, I'm embarking on some new projects by myself and have been having the "It doesn't look good enough" problem a lot. I have quality content (at least I think so) but I'm not happy with the presentation.

I understand what you're saying and this is my solution. Get the stuff out there, and then worry about tweaking the presentation. Unless you're working on a big budget release where there will be a ton of interest right off the bat, it'll serve you better in the long time to have something possibly making you money than to have something sitting on your hard drive.

[linkin99]

My experience is that I tend to want to do things once and be done with it. Therefore, I do seem to spend a lot of time doing things "right" or the way I want it the first time. This does make each design I do take longer to set up.

However, this is rarely the case in the real world for most people as deadlines loom above projects. Another thing to remember that as techs change, better design techniques and standards develop, we all seem to have to go back and change things, anyway, if we are concerned about how a design looks, or if requested by our clients/employers. So a design/site may never, ever reach the end.

[clink]

I had this exact same thing for about 4 years :/ I just kept making portfolio/web design sites to show my templates/previous design works and then got tired of it and made a new one. Its amazing how much time you can spent on this side of things, and I'm a real perfectionist when it comes to my own work. But eventually I launched my first real site (1-million-faces) and its just been so much better than designing for no purpose. Watching a site grow and develop is more satisfying that designing its looks in the first place. You can always redesign/improve stuff after you launch. Just think, the sooner you launch, the more money you'll be making, the sooner search engines will find you, and the sooner you start to build a loyal audience of steady traffic.

[mattalexx]

I like to get the program up and working and worry about css afterwards. A new paint job doesn't matter if the engine doesn't work.

That said, I spend about 50% of my time on CSS fixes when I really should be coding instead. I feel your pain.

[klannorth]

my god, i don't think i've had the internet for 4 year's let alone be in the designing process for 4 years .. Yes its safe to say you have NS Syndrome.

First time i have heard of this, but i do belive you should make a design and stick with it.. If not buy a design that you like.. i have posted something about NS Syndrome about a week ago on my blog (www.peteravey.com) and maybe that should help you out alittle. its under My Struggle

[spence_noodle]

i've been there to with this NS Syndrome. it's mostly because i've been working on the same project too long in one day.

i'm in the middle of making a website for my self and it's taken about a month upto now. I too find design things that to me could be improved to the point it's over the top. the logo was one of them, i'm on version 2 (and sticking there).

best advise I can give is: How much is it worth to you?

to me, this website could be worth alot, and I mean alot! so with this in mind I strive on to complete it, but taking good long breaks inbetween, e.g. = doing the weekly shopping, visiting friends for a night out, doing other jobs like around the house or else where.

with this my mind is fresh and ready for another day of programming that dam website.

just another useful tip! make a note on where your upto with the design/programming as I have found out.

spence

[seraph_alpha]

I have been a designer for over 6 years, and have about 45 active websites to my credit. I design three distinct designs for each client using photoshop to rough out the designs and get the clients feedback on them.

Whatever modifacations are given to me or suggestions from the client I go back to photoshop and to make the modifacations is pretty simple since the designs are still in photoshop. After the revision I present only the revised design to the client and 98% of the time they approve it.

After they approve I move onto constructing it and content layout.

I always get my designs to 90% of what I want pretty easily, and I know where your problem lies, it is the last 10% that you are working on and troubled over. You could spend a couple hours roughing out the 90% then spend at least a couple hours for each 1% above that to refine the design.

And if it is not going your way or you are not achieving your desired result after those couple hours frustration sets in and you leave the design for awhile. Repeat this over and over and you come to a stand still eventually.

I have found if you can accept the 90% of the design, the rest comes in the content layout and structure. The details basically work them selves out in the end.

I have used this system for the 6 years I have been designing sites and I have never hit the proverbial road block.

Well I hope this helps.

Thanks

Seraph_Alpha
www.free-online-web-tools.com

[Shaun(OfTheDead)]

I defeat all this by letting them approve the design before hand.

I'd do a couple of designs in Illustrator (or Photoshop). Let them approve the design at this stage.
Then when I finally start to build I just make it look exactly like what they approved.

Advantages... I avoid overworking the design (once it's approved that is that).
It's easier to make changes (while in the design stage) to the Illustrator/Photoshop file than it is to re-code areas of the site.
And best of all, I can charge extra for any changes they want made after I start coding.

[kohoutek]

I have needed two years for the design of my portfolio. Two whole years. And now it's almost ready to launch. I cannot remember how many designs have gone down the drain during that period but they've been at least a dozen.

For me, there were two important factors of what the visual design should do:

1. Mirror my personality
2. Be a balance of ALL my moods, not just temporary impulses (this was so important when choosing the right colours)

It was important for me to not work with trends in mind or arbitrary impulses/influences. Those factors where the reason why it never worked out because they were unable to reflect what I was all about which is rather crucial for a portfolio or other site you design for yourself.

After many reflections and almost 24 months, I found it. Many moments during those two years where rather disheartening.

Now, that my design is done, there's a feeling of emptiness, which often happens to me after completing a design. However, that is more due to the fact that I love the process of working on a design more than I love the product.

[shim]

I think you are on your way, k.wolfe. I actually attempted to play a game (haha) because the site is calmer than most gaming sites. Will there really be 312 games? If so, I think I'll book mark the site.

[K. Wolfe]

Originally Posted by shim

I think you are on your way, k.wolfe. I actually attempted to play a game (haha) because the site is calmer than most gaming sites. Will there really be 312 games? If so, I think I'll book mark the site.

I just threw a number in there for looks, I still have to write code for that statistics box. As of right now, I have 250-300 game uploaded on my server, and I plan on adding 100-200 more after I get the site going. I hope to have 100 games accessible by the end of this week, since as of right now, nothing is accessible, trying to figure out a little php script first.

What do you mean its calmer than most gaming sites?

Sorry to go off topic, lets not stray. My fault

[chriscut]

Get something online... then amend things as you go... once the site is online its easy to get proper feedback.

Also...

When you spend days on end working on a site you tend to get sick of what it looks like. Simply because you see it so often.

[css59]

pay someone to design, you focus on content and promotion