Comments on: Progressive Enhancement Techniques 3: the JavaScript http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/10/08/progressive-enhancement-3-javascript/ News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:44:46 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: littrean http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/10/08/progressive-enhancement-3-javascript/comment-page-1/#comment-933451 littrean Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:11:51 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=14879#comment-933451 This was a great series Craig and jQuery is well suited here in my opinion. The truth is most designers are looking to use frameworks to get the job done; it leaves room for less error and that'll make clients happy. If you're struggling to build a javaScript library for a site that you're building for someone else and you have a deadline, you're better off using a framework than rushing the code and building it incorrectly. Even worse will be building it "correctly" on one browser only to hand the site over and realize your script is broken in IE6 for example. <br/> The people that build the major frameworks in heavy usage today (jQuery, prototype, mootools, etc.), have an advanced knowledge of javaScript. Their knowledge extends the average javaScript programmer, or the guy that brags he knows a little javaScript but when you sit him in a room with he computer the best script he can come up with is an alert lol. In addition using frameworks creates a sense of healthy uniformity in the web community instead of a bunch of recklessly written obtrusive code snippets. <br/> Most people want everything done for them and for free that is. With that being said, If you can build a tab functioning java script that is cross browser, framework free, and error free then chances are Craig's III part series on Progressive Enhancement Techniques was not geared towards you because in my opinion you know your stuff and building scripts like this series is common knowledge, light work for you. This was a great series Craig and jQuery is well suited here in my opinion. The truth is most designers are looking to use frameworks to get the job done; it leaves room for less error and that’ll make clients happy. If you’re struggling to build a javaScript library for a site that you’re building for someone else and you have a deadline, you’re better off using a framework than rushing the code and building it incorrectly. Even worse will be building it “correctly” on one browser only to hand the site over and realize your script is broken in IE6 for example.
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The people that build the major frameworks in heavy usage today (jQuery, prototype, mootools, etc.), have an advanced knowledge of javaScript. Their knowledge extends the average javaScript programmer, or the guy that brags he knows a little javaScript but when you sit him in a room with he computer the best script he can come up with is an alert lol. In addition using frameworks creates a sense of healthy uniformity in the web community instead of a bunch of recklessly written obtrusive code snippets.
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Most people want everything done for them and for free that is. With that being said, If you can build a tab functioning java script that is cross browser, framework free, and error free then chances are Craig’s III part series on Progressive Enhancement Techniques was not geared towards you because in my opinion you know your stuff and building scripts like this series is common knowledge, light work for you.

]]> By: Integralist http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/10/08/progressive-enhancement-3-javascript/comment-page-1/#comment-933443 Integralist Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:09:19 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=14879#comment-933443 @Craig I look forward to reading those articles :) @Craig I look forward to reading those articles :)

]]> By: Craig Buckler http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/10/08/progressive-enhancement-3-javascript/comment-page-1/#comment-933442 Craig Buckler Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:57:44 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=14879#comment-933442 I certainly agree that libraries are over-used and not always required. However, this code is an example of progressive enhancement -- it's not meant to be a definitive tab box control. jQuery allowed me to keep the code reasonably short without adding cross-browser DOM manipulation functions, event handlers, and other supporting functions which would have doubled the length and may have confused matters. Few jQuery methods are used and most are reasonably obvious (addClass, removeClass, scrollTop, etc.) You'll be pleased to know that I'll be writing a few JS-only library-free articles very shortly. I certainly agree that libraries are over-used and not always required. However, this code is an example of progressive enhancement — it’s not meant to be a definitive tab box control.

jQuery allowed me to keep the code reasonably short without adding cross-browser DOM manipulation functions, event handlers, and other supporting functions which would have doubled the length and may have confused matters. Few jQuery methods are used and most are reasonably obvious (addClass, removeClass, scrollTop, etc.)

You’ll be pleased to know that I’ll be writing a few JS-only library-free articles very shortly.

]]> By: appletsauce http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/10/08/progressive-enhancement-3-javascript/comment-page-1/#comment-933421 appletsauce Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:03:30 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=14879#comment-933421 I would've just preferred a high-level overview with just a few snipplets here and there with a link to the full script. Don't necessarily need line-by-line. jQuery in this example isn't doing too much thinking for you. It definitely makes using the DOM easier though, and keeps it from having any focus in the article. The one negative would be for people who aren't familiar with jQuery. In that situation, I'd agree plain old JavaScript is better. I would’ve just preferred a high-level overview with just a few snipplets here and there with a link to the full script. Don’t necessarily need line-by-line. jQuery in this example isn’t doing too much thinking for you. It definitely makes using the DOM easier though, and keeps it from having any focus in the article. The one negative would be for people who aren’t familiar with jQuery. In that situation, I’d agree plain old JavaScript is better.

]]> By: Integralist http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/10/08/progressive-enhancement-3-javascript/comment-page-1/#comment-933406 Integralist Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:21:49 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=14879#comment-933406 A bit disappointing that this functionality uses jQuery rather than being library agnostic JavaScript code (i.e. use NO framework).   I appreciate that these frameworks such as jQuery and MooTools etc make it easier to build this sort of functionality. But imagine that you only want a 'tab' interface like you have built above, no more (e.g. no other need for Javascript on your website). That means you are now forced to download the entire jQuery library + your script above to perform this functionality.   It's OTT and it also means if you want to learn how to do this yourself you can't. There are so many tutorials on the internet for JavaScript functionality that sound really interesting and I go to read them only to find out they are using a framework like jQuery! People still want to learn how to code proper full JavaScript without the use of a framework.   Admittedly this current page isn't the best example of the issue I have as its still using a fair amount of core JavaScript to achieve the results you are after, but after seeing hundreds of tutorials online and literally nearly all of them using frameworks I'm a bit fed up of seeing them in use.   What is everyone elses thoughts on this? A bit disappointing that this functionality uses jQuery rather than being library agnostic JavaScript code (i.e. use NO framework).

 

I appreciate that these frameworks such as jQuery and MooTools etc make it easier to build this sort of functionality. But imagine that you only want a ‘tab’ interface like you have built above, no more (e.g. no other need for Javascript on your website). That means you are now forced to download the entire jQuery library + your script above to perform this functionality.

 

It’s OTT and it also means if you want to learn how to do this yourself you can’t. There are so many tutorials on the internet for JavaScript functionality that sound really interesting and I go to read them only to find out they are using a framework like jQuery! People still want to learn how to code proper full JavaScript without the use of a framework.

 

Admittedly this current page isn’t the best example of the issue I have as its still using a fair amount of core JavaScript to achieve the results you are after, but after seeing hundreds of tutorials online and literally nearly all of them using frameworks I’m a bit fed up of seeing them in use.

 

What is everyone elses thoughts on this?

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