Comments on: Hillary, IE6 and the State of the State Department http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/ News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com. Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:42:52 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: israelisassi http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929779 israelisassi Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:03:19 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929779 Pat Kennedy did a wonderful job ensuring he would get the funding to make this change by capitalizing on HC being put on the spot... and that's the way politics are played.. Pat Kennedy did a wonderful job ensuring he would get the funding to make this change by capitalizing on HC being put on the spot… and that’s the way politics are played..

]]> By: jufemaiz http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929692 jufemaiz Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:42:02 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929692 @AndrewCooper: oh, don't get me wrong, I don't disagree, however even large corporate entities like SAP still have issues with legacy IE6 applications. "Simply" shifting to IE7 is a mammoth task because of front end coding methods that were acceptable on the web in 94, but definitely not 2004, still being acceptable in house. The reason (and I've encountered this in 2008-9 leading app development in house but outside of the IT crowd)? "We control the SOE, We control the browser" (along with a lack of competition meaning that they can be lazy in implementation, though the browser selection definitely plays into it). This is why IE7 was such a debacle - it *had* to deal with the legacy that IE6 created in enterprise. For the record, not many enterprises have in fact rolled Vista out and do still sit on WinXP. @AndrewCooper: oh, don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree, however even large corporate entities like SAP still have issues with legacy IE6 applications. “Simply” shifting to IE7 is a mammoth task because of front end coding methods that were acceptable on the web in 94, but definitely not 2004, still being acceptable in house. The reason (and I’ve encountered this in 2008-9 leading app development in house but outside of the IT crowd)? “We control the SOE, We control the browser” (along with a lack of competition meaning that they can be lazy in implementation, though the browser selection definitely plays into it). This is why IE7 was such a debacle – it *had* to deal with the legacy that IE6 created in enterprise.

For the record, not many enterprises have in fact rolled Vista out and do still sit on WinXP.

]]> By: AndrewCooper http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929689 AndrewCooper Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:20:59 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929689 @jufemaiz I've never worked in enterprise environments so I really can't say anything about it in all honesty, it's just my views and opinions that if you're going to get involved with technology then keep up with it. You should know before you buy some technology that one day it'll need to be upgraded. Andrew Cooper @jufemaiz

I’ve never worked in enterprise environments so I really can’t say anything about it in all honesty, it’s just my views and opinions that if you’re going to get involved with technology then keep up with it. You should know before you buy some technology that one day it’ll need to be upgraded.

Andrew Cooper

]]> By: Anthony http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929687 Anthony Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:17:59 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929687 <blockquote> <strong>israelisassi</strong> - Yes this was fixed but, what other security problems exist that have not been revealed yet. </blockquote> Do you realize how many "critical" days IE6 has spent at rick to security threats in the last 3 years? Almost 2 of them. Microsoft doesn't even actively support this version anymore. Not using something for the "risks" it <em>might</em> encounter in the future is like not buying a car because it will eventually get a flat tire.

israelisassi – Yes this was fixed but, what other security problems exist that have not been revealed yet.

Do you realize how many “critical” days IE6 has spent at rick to security threats in the last 3 years? Almost 2 of them. Microsoft doesn’t even actively support this version anymore.

Not using something for the “risks” it might encounter in the future is like not buying a car because it will eventually get a flat tire.

]]> By: BlakeAnthony http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929662 BlakeAnthony Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:11:34 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929662 Very good post Alex. About time congress is getting involved. Maybe something will finally actual get done rather than "He say she say". If hillary comes through she will have millions of internet users very happy with her. Untill, I see sites like (Youtube, Digg) im still going to support IE6. Very good post Alex. About time congress is getting involved. Maybe something will finally actual get done rather than “He say she say”. If hillary comes through she will have millions of internet users very happy with her. Untill, I see sites like (Youtube, Digg) im still going to support IE6.

]]> By: israelisassi http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929661 israelisassi Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:09:17 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929661 Yes this was fixed but, what other security problems exist that have not been revealed yet. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10289205-83.html Yes this was fixed but, what other security problems exist that have not been revealed yet. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10289205-83.html

]]> By: jufemaiz http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929641 jufemaiz Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:28:31 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929641 @Andrew: you've evidently spent little time working in enterprise environments. With a history of "we control the SOE, we control the browser" combined with hegemony in the enterprise sector for the best part of a decade by IE6, the internal development community (if you want to call it that) ended up ignoring web standards and any notion of cross browser compatibility. This was further cemented with many enterprise applications requiring IE6 to operate - the hidden cost and legacy of ignoring standards. Even today, the lack of knowledge and competition means that enterprise applications rate a distant second to those you experience on the Internet. It is this legacy that is at the core of the comments made - though not admitted to. @Andrew: you’ve evidently spent little time working in enterprise environments. With a history of “we control the SOE, we control the browser” combined with hegemony in the enterprise sector for the best part of a decade by IE6, the internal development community (if you want to call it that) ended up ignoring web standards and any notion of cross browser compatibility. This was further cemented with many enterprise applications requiring IE6 to operate – the hidden cost and legacy of ignoring standards. Even today, the lack of knowledge and competition means that enterprise applications rate a distant second to those you experience on the Internet. It is this legacy that is at the
core of the comments made – though not admitted to.

]]> By: AndrewCooper http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929639 AndrewCooper Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:16:29 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929639 They should have some policy in place for all U.S Government department computer systems to be upgraded every x years. Schools, Colleges and Universities do it over here in the UK. It's usually either every 3 or 4 years max that an operating system or actual PC will be used, then they'll replace all of the existing systems with new ones to keep upto date with current technology. Are we saying that the U.S Government are using Windows XP [Potentially older] and Internet Explorer 6 for their systems?...No wonder they have all sorts of security threats and their systems are hacked into...Pretty simple really. The solution is already made for them, all they have to do is implement it. And it isn't like they have to build a new space shuttle to go land on the Moon, eh? Makes me wonder sometimes! -head in hands- Andrew Cooper They should have some policy in place for all U.S Government department computer systems to be upgraded every x years. Schools, Colleges and Universities do it over here in the UK. It’s usually either every 3 or 4 years max that an operating system or actual PC will be used, then they’ll replace all of the existing systems with new ones to keep upto date with current technology.

Are we saying that the U.S Government are using Windows XP [Potentially older] and Internet Explorer 6 for their systems?…No wonder they have all sorts of security threats and their systems are hacked into…Pretty simple really. The solution is already made for them, all they have to do is implement it. And it isn’t like they have to build a new space shuttle to go land on the Moon, eh?

Makes me wonder sometimes! -head in hands-

Andrew Cooper

]]> By: skunkbad http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929624 skunkbad Mon, 03 Aug 2009 06:39:07 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929624 I'm shocked, considering the U.S. government's love for wasting money, that they wouldn't embrace passing a law that required all government computers to have professional installation of Firefox by IT professionals who were trained by people who were trained by people who were trained to install Firefox... all at the taxpayer's expense. I’m shocked, considering the U.S. government’s love for wasting money, that they wouldn’t embrace passing a law that required all government computers to have professional installation of Firefox by IT professionals who were trained by people who were trained by people who were trained to install Firefox… all at the taxpayer’s expense.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929621 Anonymous Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:57:17 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929621 Never mind that Firefox is more IE6 looking than IE7 or IE8 Never mind that Firefox is more IE6 looking than IE7 or IE8

]]> By: philip http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929616 philip Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:35:33 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929616 Well, I can understand the cost of deployment, but training, applying patches and support? Exactly how hard is it to use a browser? Sure, we're the tech-savvy people, but most non-techie people I've seen when using firefox for the first time would just comment that my "internet explorer" looks different, and use it without too much trouble, provided that they've seen a computer before. Well, I can understand the cost of deployment, but training, applying patches and support? Exactly how hard is it to use a browser?

Sure, we’re the tech-savvy people, but most non-techie people I’ve seen when using firefox for the first time would just comment that my “internet explorer” looks different, and use it without too much trouble, provided that they’ve seen a computer before.

]]> By: dougoftheabaci http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929615 dougoftheabaci Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:57:42 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929615 This is where I draw all comfort from: Just because they use it at work doesn't mean they do at home. And just because they use it at work doesn't mean they're browsing your site. Could we not expect to find that those users who are in such a position make up a fraction of the users who frequent our sites? This is where I draw all comfort from: Just because they use it at work doesn’t mean they do at home. And just because they use it at work doesn’t mean they’re browsing your site. Could we not expect to find that those users who are in such a position make up a fraction of the users who frequent our sites?

]]> By: jufemaiz http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/03/hilary-ie6-and-the-state-of-the-state-department/comment-page-1/#comment-929614 jufemaiz Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:50:12 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=12919#comment-929614 Welcome to enterprise. It's the failure of the web world, and it's had a lot of support to stay that way due to the ineptitude of Microsoft's .NET team. Welcome to enterprise.

It’s the failure of the web world, and it’s had a lot of support to stay that way due to the ineptitude of Microsoft’s .NET team.

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