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	<title>Comments on: 10 Things to Check Before Using a CAPTCHA</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:54:05 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: technolojik</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-926585</link>
		<dc:creator>technolojik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-926585</guid>
		<description>Try running some forums with the “advice” you have given. See what happens.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hiberya.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hiberya&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try running some forums with the “advice” you have given. See what happens.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hiberya.com" rel="nofollow">hiberya</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Craig Buckler</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-926054</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Buckler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 15:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-926054</guid>
		<description>@jacoetheron
&lt;blockquote&gt;Using php&#039;s session does not need cookies&lt;/blockquote&gt;

True - the session ID can be propagated in the URL. However, that could affect several of the other bot-checking techniques. It could also be posted in the form data, but that&#039;s not much different to using an encrypted time value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jacoetheron</p>
<blockquote><p>Using php&#8217;s session does not need cookies</p></blockquote>
<p>True &#8211; the session ID can be propagated in the URL. However, that could affect several of the other bot-checking techniques. It could also be posted in the form data, but that&#8217;s not much different to using an encrypted time value.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jacoetheron</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-926045</link>
		<dc:creator>jacoetheron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 14:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-926045</guid>
		<description>A while back I had to create a visitor&#039;s book (a page where visitors can post comments). I used Javascript to insert the form on the page (to reduce chances of spam bots), strip all HTML form the post and limit the length to 255 chars (adding a &quot;...&quot; if exceeded) before it gets added into the database.

&lt;blockquote&gt;You certainly can do that, but users must have cookies enabled for it to work.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Using php&#039;s session does not need cookies, it stores the data in both cookies and as a session file on the server (for backup). I agree that the key should be checked.

Great post</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A while back I had to create a visitor&#8217;s book (a page where visitors can post comments). I used Javascript to insert the form on the page (to reduce chances of spam bots), strip all HTML form the post and limit the length to 255 chars (adding a &#8220;&#8230;&#8221; if exceeded) before it gets added into the database.</p>
<blockquote><p>You certainly can do that, but users must have cookies enabled for it to work.</p></blockquote>
<p>Using php&#8217;s session does not need cookies, it stores the data in both cookies and as a session file on the server (for backup). I agree that the key should be checked.</p>
<p>Great post</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Craig Buckler</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-925739</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Buckler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 13:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-925739</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;why save the server time at form generation in a hidden field, and not i a session&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You certainly can do that, but users must have cookies enabled for it to work. Also, the postback ensures the key was generated in the original form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>why save the server time at form generation in a hidden field, and not i a session</p></blockquote>
<p>You certainly can do that, but users must have cookies enabled for it to work. Also, the postback ensures the key was generated in the original form.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joakim Kejser</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-925709</link>
		<dc:creator>Joakim Kejser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 17:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-925709</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;8. Time the user response&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I really like this one. But why save the server time at form generation in a hidden field, and not i a session?

Joakim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>8. Time the user response</p></blockquote>
<p>I really like this one. But why save the server time at form generation in a hidden field, and not i a session?</p>
<p>Joakim</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Phytoplankton</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-925637</link>
		<dc:creator>Phytoplankton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-925637</guid>
		<description>This is exactly what I&#039;ve been looking for.
I really don&#039;t want to implement a Captcha on my site as it&#039;s based on people being able to add content without any hassle.

Two things that I&#039;m going to work on implementing this weekend are detecting Javascript and checking the time between the Page_Load and the POST.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is exactly what I&#8217;ve been looking for.<br />
I really don&#8217;t want to implement a Captcha on my site as it&#8217;s based on people being able to add content without any hassle.</p>
<p>Two things that I&#8217;m going to work on implementing this weekend are detecting Javascript and checking the time between the Page_Load and the POST.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Green Beast</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-925634</link>
		<dc:creator>Green Beast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 14:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-925634</guid>
		<description>Regarding display:none, it all depends on screen reader version and the version/make of the browser it&#039;s being used on. Some will handle display:none just fine, others won&#039;t. It&#039;s just like the legacy browser conundrum we face. Using an offset class via negative margin (or indent I suppose), as far as I can tell, is universally supported. Remember the solution must bear the label stating to leave the input blank for when there is no CSS support. Fortunately &#039;bots are stupid about reading labels too. 

Aksimet isn&#039;t my cup-of-tea, at least as it concerns blog comments. Since it&#039;s not flawless it has a holding queue, and that must be checked. I prefer something more passive that does its job without oversight. Bear in mind, please, that I haven&#039;t used Akismet for anything other than comment moderation on a blog so I may be missing something. For spam control on my blog I have Akismet, Bad Behavior, and Mike Jolley&#039;s WP Comment Spam Stopper (http://blue-anvil.com/archives/wordpress-comment-spam-stopper-plugin). I listed those fro least favorite/effective to most favorite/effective - based solely on my personal experiences.

Cheers.
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding display:none, it all depends on screen reader version and the version/make of the browser it&#8217;s being used on. Some will handle display:none just fine, others won&#8217;t. It&#8217;s just like the legacy browser conundrum we face. Using an offset class via negative margin (or indent I suppose), as far as I can tell, is universally supported. Remember the solution must bear the label stating to leave the input blank for when there is no CSS support. Fortunately &#8216;bots are stupid about reading labels too. </p>
<p>Aksimet isn&#8217;t my cup-of-tea, at least as it concerns blog comments. Since it&#8217;s not flawless it has a holding queue, and that must be checked. I prefer something more passive that does its job without oversight. Bear in mind, please, that I haven&#8217;t used Akismet for anything other than comment moderation on a blog so I may be missing something. For spam control on my blog I have Akismet, Bad Behavior, and Mike Jolley&#8217;s WP Comment Spam Stopper (<a href="http://blue-anvil.com/archives/wordpress-comment-spam-stopper-plugin)" rel="nofollow">http://blue-anvil.com/archives/wordpress-comment-spam-stopper-plugin)</a>. I listed those fro least favorite/effective to most favorite/effective &#8211; based solely on my personal experiences.</p>
<p>Cheers.<br />
Mike</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: davideldridge</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-925632</link>
		<dc:creator>davideldridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 13:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-925632</guid>
		<description>I am not saying do or don&#039;t [use accessible technology, etc.] ultimately, just implement thoughtfully. People (usually at my end) get shrill about standards and accessibility. And though it is my bread and butter as a government webmaster, I still think we have to use our noggins for this.
&lt;strong&gt;Stevie D&lt;/strong&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;So a blind user will come to a field where the label says “please leave this field blank” and fill it in … with what? And why?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I don&#039;t think they will fill that in, and that would be a fair use. But that assumes that developers use that kind of text. It is important that developers thoughtfully implement that kind of input. If they use &lt;code&gt;display:none;&lt;/code&gt; and a question like &quot;What&#039;s your age?&quot; that would trip a bot, and folks using screen readers.
&lt;strong&gt;Craig Buckler&lt;/strong&gt; said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Besides that, a honeypot field cannot be any worse than a CAPTCHA for visually-impaired users!&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think many new CAPTCHA and CAPTCHA-like devices use an audio version that allows blind users to step around it. So, honestly, (re-)CAPTCHAs are relatively accessible, shopping around can help.
I am still a fan of using akismet (or other back-end validation), though, and I think most users (e.g. blind commenters in this case) who deal with these problems will appreciate your use of such technologies, or at least be less frustrated by it, since it is transparent to them. And while I haven&#039;t gotten that many commenters on my blogs, I approve all comments from new users, and have had a good experience with akismet&#039;s accuracy: where spam constitutes about 90% of the comments I receive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not saying do or don&#8217;t [use accessible technology, etc.] ultimately, just implement thoughtfully. People (usually at my end) get shrill about standards and accessibility. And though it is my bread and butter as a government webmaster, I still think we have to use our noggins for this.<br />
<strong>Stevie D</strong> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>So a blind user will come to a field where the label says “please leave this field blank” and fill it in … with what? And why?</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think they will fill that in, and that would be a fair use. But that assumes that developers use that kind of text. It is important that developers thoughtfully implement that kind of input. If they use <code>display:none;</code> and a question like &#8220;What&#8217;s your age?&#8221; that would trip a bot, and folks using screen readers.<br />
<strong>Craig Buckler</strong> said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Besides that, a honeypot field cannot be any worse than a CAPTCHA for visually-impaired users!</p></blockquote>
<p>I think many new CAPTCHA and CAPTCHA-like devices use an audio version that allows blind users to step around it. So, honestly, (re-)CAPTCHAs are relatively accessible, shopping around can help.<br />
I am still a fan of using akismet (or other back-end validation), though, and I think most users (e.g. blind commenters in this case) who deal with these problems will appreciate your use of such technologies, or at least be less frustrated by it, since it is transparent to them. And while I haven&#8217;t gotten that many commenters on my blogs, I approve all comments from new users, and have had a good experience with akismet&#8217;s accuracy: where spam constitutes about 90% of the comments I receive.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Craig Buckler</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-925629</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Buckler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 12:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-925629</guid>
		<description>As far as I&#039;m aware, screen readers should ignore &lt;code&gt;display:none&lt;/code&gt; but they will read out &lt;code&gt;text-indent&lt;/code&gt;. I&#039;m sure that won&#039;t be the case for all readers, though.

Besides that, a honeypot field cannot be any worse than a CAPTCHA for visually-impaired users!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I&#8217;m aware, screen readers should ignore <code>display:none</code> but they will read out <code>text-indent</code>. I&#8217;m sure that won&#8217;t be the case for all readers, though.</p>
<p>Besides that, a honeypot field cannot be any worse than a CAPTCHA for visually-impaired users!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stevie D</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/14/captcha-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-925628</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevie D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 12:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=9268#comment-925628</guid>
		<description>Green Beast wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Honeypots are great, I use and recommend them myself. They should be offset (off-screen to the left), though, and not hidden with display:none. This will ensure the label (warning not to fill in the input) will be available to screen reader users so they don’t get caught in the trap.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If the &lt;code&gt;input&lt;/code&gt; field is included in the &lt;code&gt;display:none;&lt;/code&gt;, surely any screen reader setup that noticed the field would also read the label? Or am I being naively optimistic about screen readers...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Green Beast wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Honeypots are great, I use and recommend them myself. They should be offset (off-screen to the left), though, and not hidden with display:none. This will ensure the label (warning not to fill in the input) will be available to screen reader users so they don’t get caught in the trap.</p></blockquote>
<p>If the <code>input</code> field is included in the <code>display:none;</code>, surely any screen reader setup that noticed the field would also read the label? Or am I being naively optimistic about screen readers&#8230;?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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