Comments on: IE8 Automatic Update Starting Soon http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/ News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com. Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:42:52 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: ziplok http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-917837 ziplok Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:50:23 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-917837 Good thing almost all my sites are Wordpress 2.7.1! Good thing almost all my sites are Wordpress 2.7.1!

]]> By: Craig Buckler http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-917597 Craig Buckler Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:54:46 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-917597 @AussieJohn <blockquote>I also suspect Craig writes a lot of articles involving IE6 because he likes getting lots of comments :-P</blockquote> The article's about IE8! But yes, discussion comments are healthy! @AussieJohn

I also suspect Craig writes a lot of articles involving IE6 because he likes getting lots of comments :-P

The article’s about IE8!
But yes, discussion comments are healthy!

]]> By: Banhawi http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-917028 Banhawi Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:56:59 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-917028 The start of IE6 end The start of IE6 end

]]> By: cranial-bore http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916868 cranial-bore Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:09:42 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916868 Once IE8 has broader adoption it will be more reasonable for designers and sites to have a word in the ear of IE6 users, as they will be using a browser TWO major versions out of date (with many years between versions). The <em>"Please Update"</em> notices on websites should have a bit more authority then. Once IE8 has broader adoption it will be more reasonable for designers and sites to have a word in the ear of IE6 users, as they will be using a browser TWO major versions out of date (with many years between versions).
The “Please Update” notices on websites should have a bit more authority then.

]]> By: cgntoonartist http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916720 cgntoonartist Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:31:37 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916720 I think the trick is to "TELL EVERYONE" ( clients, friends, and family ) to upgrade their browsers and also tell them to "spread the word". We also must get them excited about the benefits of upgrading to IE7 or IE8. If people get excited about upgrading, and they understand the benefits, they will definitely upgrade. The only people that will probably hang on to IE6 for a little longer are people that are on an Intranet that only works well with IE6 and people with OLD computers. But no big deal, we should be able to see IE6 drop to less than 10% in usage very soon. We just need to do our part to promote the update and to educate people so that they get excited about the move. As developers we also have to take a stand and say "I will no longer support IE6 - period!" I understand that there are some special circumstances that some of us will still need to take IE6 into consideration, but most of the time, we can decide that IE6 is no more. Cheers! I think the trick is to “TELL EVERYONE” ( clients, friends, and family ) to upgrade their browsers and also tell them to “spread the word”. We also must get them excited about the benefits of upgrading to IE7 or IE8. If people get excited about upgrading, and they understand the benefits, they will definitely upgrade.

The only people that will probably hang on to IE6 for a little longer are people that are on an Intranet that only works well with IE6 and people with OLD computers. But no big deal, we should be able to see IE6 drop to less than 10% in usage very soon.

We just need to do our part to promote the update and to educate people so that they get excited about the move.

As developers we also have to take a stand and say “I will no longer support IE6 – period!” I understand that there are some special circumstances that some of us will still need to take IE6 into consideration, but most of the time, we can decide that IE6 is no more.

Cheers!

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916715 Anonymous Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:24:03 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916715 I think the trick is to "TELL EVERYONE" to upgrade their browsers and also tell them to spread the word. We also must get them excited about the benefits of upgrading to IE7 or IE8. I think that if people get excited about upgrading and they understand the benefits, they will definitely upgrade. The only people that will probably hang on to IE6 a little more are people that are on an Intranet that only works well with IE6 and people with OLD computers. But no big deal. We should be able to see IE6 drop to less than 10% in usage soon. We just need to do our part to promote the update and to educate people so that they get excited about the move. I think the trick is to “TELL EVERYONE” to upgrade their browsers and also tell them to spread the word. We also must get them excited about the benefits of upgrading to IE7 or IE8. I think that if people get excited about upgrading and they understand the benefits, they will definitely upgrade.

The only people that will probably hang on to IE6 a little more are people that are on an Intranet that only works well with IE6 and people with OLD computers. But no big deal. We should be able to see IE6 drop to less than 10% in usage soon.

We just need to do our part to promote the update and to educate people so that they get excited about the move.

]]> By: NetNerd85 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916639 NetNerd85 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:37:39 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916639 It seems a lot of clients using IE6 don't have automatic updates on and don't know how to update their PC. One of my favourite lines from the IT Crowd comes to mind "...the button turns it on..." It seems a lot of clients using IE6 don’t have automatic updates on and don’t know how to update their PC.

One of my favourite lines from the IT Crowd comes to mind “…the button turns it on…”

]]> By: webdever http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916632 webdever Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:28:02 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916632 Most end-users will most likely upgrade to IE8, because there is no reason not to. They want the best browsing experience and you can be sure that the websites they visit will work with IE8. It's the corporate networks that have consistently failed to update their web applications that are keeping IE6 alive. Since there are lots of employees on these networks, locked in to IE6, accessing the Internet at work, the market share remains something that continues to be supported. Unfortunately, upgrading web application can be very expensive and it simply doesn't make sense to "fix" an application if it's not broken. Given the current financial climate, I doubt many companies will spring to upgrade in the near future. IE6 will ultimately die when corporations upgrade their networks with Vista or Windows 7. Most end-users will most likely upgrade to IE8, because there is no reason not to. They want the best browsing experience and you can be sure that the websites they visit will work with IE8.

It’s the corporate networks that have consistently failed to update their web applications that are keeping IE6 alive. Since there are lots of employees on these networks, locked in to IE6, accessing the Internet at work, the market share remains something that continues to be supported.

Unfortunately, upgrading web application can be very expensive and it simply doesn’t make sense to “fix” an application if it’s not broken. Given the current financial climate, I doubt many companies will spring to upgrade in the near future.

IE6 will ultimately die when corporations upgrade their networks with Vista or Windows 7.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916478 Anonymous Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:21:50 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916478 This will not make a huge difference, I suspect. Many of the corporate environments that stuck with IE6 when IE7 came out will do the same now. I'm stuck with supporting IE6 for the foreseeable future. This will not make a huge difference, I suspect. Many of the corporate environments that stuck with IE6 when IE7 came out will do the same now. I’m stuck with supporting IE6 for the foreseeable future.

]]> By: AussieJohn http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916473 AussieJohn Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:15:32 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916473 I also suspect Craig writes a lot of articles involving IE6 because he likes getting lots of comments :-P I also suspect Craig writes a lot of articles involving IE6 because he likes getting lots of comments :-P

]]> By: AussieJohn http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916470 AussieJohn Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:13:45 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916470 <blockquote>Sure I’m glad IE 8 is about, many people will benefit from a better browsing experience. I just don’t think that web developers should take that as an excuse to short circuit the process of creating robust sites.</blockquote> I'm not going to pretend to know how many hours you spend on front end web development, but I do believe I speak for a large proportion of front-end web developers when I say that the amount of time taken to cater for IE6 is a very large number compared to just building a site for modern browsers. I spend my time building interfaces with XHTML, JavaScript and CSS, I build things that work fantastic for Firefox/Safari/IE7/IE8 (in other words 99% of users on modern browsers) and then I spend hours upon hours hacking and tweaking so that things will work in IE6. It's not about "taking shortcuts in the process of creating robust websites", it's about improving the standards and quality of the web, and we can not continue to provide these superb interfaces in IE6 because it isn't a very cost effective way of building websites. I suspect sites with "dumbed down" interfaces for IE6 will start to appear soon.

Sure I’m glad IE 8 is about, many people will benefit from a better browsing experience. I just don’t think that web developers should take that as an excuse to short circuit the process of creating robust sites.

I’m not going to pretend to know how many hours you spend on front end web development, but I do believe I speak for a large proportion of front-end web developers when I say that the amount of time taken to cater for IE6 is a very large number compared to just building a site for modern browsers.

I spend my time building interfaces with XHTML, JavaScript and CSS, I build things that work fantastic for Firefox/Safari/IE7/IE8 (in other words 99% of users on modern browsers) and then I spend hours upon hours hacking and tweaking so that things will work in IE6.

It’s not about “taking shortcuts in the process of creating robust websites”, it’s about improving the standards and quality of the web, and we can not continue to provide these superb interfaces in IE6 because it isn’t a very cost effective way of building websites. I suspect sites with “dumbed down” interfaces for IE6 will start to appear soon.

]]> By: Craig Buckler http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916456 Craig Buckler Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:45:32 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916456 <blockquote>Does IE8 have a compatibility mode for IE6, not that would aloow lots of users “stuck” with IE6 to upgrade!</blockquote> It's a shame that it doesn't. The rendering differences between IE8 and IE7 are minor compared to IE6. But would it persuade corporations to upgrade? Rolling out IE8 and configuring every desktop to switch to IE6 compatibility mode in certain situations would still require significant effort. Ultimately, it's easier just to keep the users on IE6 until the next OS upgrade.

Does IE8 have a compatibility mode for IE6, not that would aloow lots of users “stuck” with IE6 to upgrade!

It’s a shame that it doesn’t. The rendering differences between IE8 and IE7 are minor compared to IE6.

But would it persuade corporations to upgrade? Rolling out IE8 and configuring every desktop to switch to IE6 compatibility mode in certain situations would still require significant effort. Ultimately, it’s easier just to keep the users on IE6 until the next OS upgrade.

]]> By: Paul McKeown http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916397 Paul McKeown Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:56:28 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916397 What's the problem? IE5, IE5.5, IE6 and IE7 just give you work to do - you should be glad they are around! And, fellows, let's face it, it ain't rocket science, it's more like sledding downhill on a snowy day. Conditional comments to some IE correcting css files. And some object detection and branched ECMAScript to provide code for the non-standard DOM whenever necessary. Hey and that should mostly be linrary code anyway. What's all the wailing, rent garments, sackcloth and ashes about? It's actually much harder to cope with real bugs in browsers rather than MS's admittedly ofttime annoying design choices. Remember the preventDefault in Safari until 2.0.4? Strewth! Numerous real bugs abound in all browsers - and as there is no standard, universal and reliable way to "sniff" platform, browser and version, it is very difficult to cope with them. As an industry, we seem to just shrug our shoulders and say, "Sure it will be corrected in the next version" and pretend that people don't have genuine reasons for staying with old platforms and running old versions of browsers which we love to feel snobbish about. Sure I'm glad IE 8 is about, many people will benefit from a better browsing experience. I just don't think that web developers should take that as an excuse to short circuit the process of creating robust sites. What’s the problem? IE5, IE5.5, IE6 and IE7 just give you work to do – you should be glad they are around! And, fellows, let’s face it, it ain’t rocket science, it’s more like sledding downhill on a snowy day. Conditional comments to some IE correcting css files. And some object detection and branched ECMAScript to provide code for the non-standard DOM whenever necessary. Hey and that should mostly be linrary code anyway. What’s all the wailing, rent garments, sackcloth and ashes about? It’s actually much harder to cope with real bugs in browsers rather than MS’s admittedly ofttime annoying design choices. Remember the preventDefault in Safari until 2.0.4? Strewth! Numerous real bugs abound in all browsers – and as there is no standard, universal and reliable way to “sniff” platform, browser and version, it is very difficult to cope with them. As an industry, we seem to just shrug our shoulders and say, “Sure it will be corrected in the next version” and pretend that people don’t have genuine reasons for staying with old platforms and running old versions of browsers which we love to feel snobbish about.

Sure I’m glad IE 8 is about, many people will benefit from a better browsing experience. I just don’t think that web developers should take that as an excuse to short circuit the process of creating robust sites.

]]> By: Amtiskaw http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916371 Amtiskaw Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:28:01 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916371 According to <a href="http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=3" rel="nofollow">some sources</a>, IE6 usage has been been dropping at about 1% per month for the past year at least, and currently stands at 18%. If we project forward, we can foresee that in 12 months time, it's market share could be as low as 6%. I'd say about 5% is the threshold at which it no longer makes sense to pay the cost of supporting it vs the benefit of the extra users. Of course, depending on your site's user base and the statistics you gather from them, you may make the shift sooner or later. Hopefully, as different sites start to de-support IE6, it will cause more people to upgrade and thus accelerate its decline. According to some sources, IE6 usage has been been dropping at about 1% per month for the past year at least, and currently stands at 18%. If we project forward, we can foresee that in 12 months time, it’s market share could be as low as 6%. I’d say about 5% is the threshold at which it no longer makes sense to pay the cost of supporting it vs the benefit of the extra users.

Of course, depending on your site’s user base and the statistics you gather from them, you may make the shift sooner or later. Hopefully, as different sites start to de-support IE6, it will cause more people to upgrade and thus accelerate its decline.

]]> By: peach http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916355 peach Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:50:29 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916355 "What about users in the stone age with IE 5.5? Those visitors with this on my sites drive me nuts!" Well if you're still feeling the need to support ie 5.5, don't even think about dropping ie6 in the coming 10 years or so ;) I've dropped ie5.5 years ago. “What about users in the stone age with IE 5.5? Those visitors with this on my sites drive me nuts!”
Well if you’re still feeling the need to support ie 5.5, don’t even think about dropping ie6 in the coming 10 years or so ;)

I’ve dropped ie5.5 years ago.

]]> By: sinthux http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916350 sinthux Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:45:08 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916350 IE just needs to die. It's nice that they're putting more emphasis on upgrading, but even that is a fail. IE just needs to die. It’s nice that they’re putting more emphasis on upgrading, but even that is a fail.

]]> By: flashmind http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916188 flashmind Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:49:53 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916188 One can only hope. One can only hope.

]]> By: AussieJohn http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916178 AussieJohn Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:38:51 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916178 @mh0825: I haven't bothered supporting IE 5.5 for a few years now, you can't even get the browser anywhere apart from standalone versions (like MultipleIE). Windows 2000 came with it by default, but the entire OS isn't even supported by Microsoft any more. @mh0825:
I haven’t bothered supporting IE 5.5 for a few years now, you can’t even get the browser anywhere apart from standalone versions (like MultipleIE). Windows 2000 came with it by default, but the entire OS isn’t even supported by Microsoft any more.

]]> By: mh0825 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916163 mh0825 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:16:30 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916163 What about users in the stone age with IE 5.5? Those visitors with this on my sites drive me nuts! What about users in the stone age with IE 5.5? Those visitors with this on my sites drive me nuts!

]]> By: AussieJohn http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916083 AussieJohn Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:06:51 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916083 A big part of the problem is that IT departments for corporations will use the blocker kit and not allow IE8 to be installed. They have had more than 2 years to update their intranet applications, Microsoft have even released compatibility tools to help developers/IT depts. to update their intranet to work with IE7. After all this time, we are still seeing a *very* slow move from IE6 to newer browsers. At least by adding IE8 to automatic updates early on the uptake will be a bit faster and more widespread. A big part of the problem is that IT departments for corporations will use the blocker kit and not allow IE8 to be installed.
They have had more than 2 years to update their intranet applications, Microsoft have even released compatibility tools to help developers/IT depts. to update their intranet to work with IE7. After all this time, we are still seeing a *very* slow move from IE6 to newer browsers.

At least by adding IE8 to automatic updates early on the uptake will be a bit faster and more widespread.

]]> By: neonwolf http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-916042 neonwolf Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:58:53 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-916042 I must agree with @bbolte, we are going to have to deal with "the IE6 problem" for a while longer. The users that haven't updated yet will need a more brute force approach to upgrading. In the case of our department's SOE it will mean quite a while. We are just about to upgrade to Vista. (Don't ask) We finally get IE7 as the standard browser. I estimate it will be another 18-24 months before we see talk of upgrading to IE8. I must agree with @bbolte, we are going to have to deal with “the IE6 problem” for a while longer. The users that haven’t updated yet will need a more brute force approach to upgrading. In the case of our department’s SOE it will mean quite a while. We are just about to upgrade to Vista. (Don’t ask) We finally get IE7 as the standard browser. I estimate it will be another 18-24 months before we see talk of upgrading to IE8.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-915902 Anonymous Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:19:13 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-915902 Does IE8 have a compatibility mode for IE6, not that would aloow lots of users "stuck" with IE6 to upgrade ! Just a little thought ! D Does IE8 have a compatibility mode for IE6, not that would aloow lots of users “stuck” with IE6 to upgrade !

Just a little thought !

D

]]> By: bbolte http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-915846 bbolte Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:21:46 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-915846 No, it won't solve the IE6 problem. If IE6 users didn't upgrade to 7 (for whatever reason), they won't update to 8. No, it won’t solve the IE6 problem. If IE6 users didn’t upgrade to 7 (for whatever reason), they won’t update to 8.

]]> By: Susan http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-915818 Susan Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:25:45 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-915818 It should be a success. There shouldn't be the issues that IE7 produced in part because of the compatibility mode, and in part because people who have IE7 already, should be successful in updating and using and will spread the word. IE8's success doesn't depend on current IE6 users, and new users with new systems should be very happy. It should be a success. There shouldn’t be the issues that IE7 produced in part because of the compatibility mode, and in part because people who have IE7 already, should be successful in updating and using and will spread the word.

IE8’s success doesn’t depend on current IE6 users, and new users with new systems should be very happy.

]]> By: Greg http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/14/ie8-automatic-update/comment-page-1/#comment-915771 Greg Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:46:26 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=8100#comment-915771 Hey, at least it's a start. Hey, at least it’s a start.

]]>