Comments on: 10 Fixes That Solve IE6 Problems http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/ News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:54:05 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: awasson http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-915155 awasson Sun, 12 Apr 2009 17:25:46 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-915155 <blockquote> Anonymous Says: April 11th, 2009 at 1:29 am Refusing to make your commercial sites ie6 compatible because “everyone should upgrade” is like driving around screaming at the other drivers - it serves no purpose other than to hear yourself screaming. The sad fact is that many potential site visitors are stuck in a rut with ie6 for one reason or another - but the clients (you know, the people who pay us?) still want us to reach every possible potential customer in spite of the level of their technical prowess. Therefore, we have to continue to test in ie6 an make sites comply.</blockquote> Thank you... That's exactly what I've been thinking and I couldn't have said it better.

Anonymous Says:
April 11th, 2009 at 1:29 am

Refusing to make your commercial sites ie6 compatible because “everyone should upgrade” is like driving around screaming at the other drivers – it serves no purpose other than to hear yourself screaming. The sad fact is that many potential site visitors are stuck in a rut with ie6 for one reason or another – but the clients (you know, the people who pay us?) still want us to reach every possible potential customer in spite of the level of their technical prowess. Therefore, we have to continue to test in ie6 an make sites comply.

Thank you… That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking and I couldn’t have said it better.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-913451 Anonymous Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:29:02 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-913451 Refusing to make your commercial sites ie6 compatible because "everyone should upgrade" is like driving around screaming at the other drivers - it serves no purpose other than to hear yourself screaming. The sad fact is that many potential site visitors are stuck in a rut with ie6 for one reason or another - but the clients (you know, the people who pay us?) still want us to reach every possible potential customer in spite of the level of their technical prowess. Therefore, we have to continue to test in ie6 an make sites comply. Thanks for the tips. Refusing to make your commercial sites ie6 compatible because “everyone should upgrade” is like driving around screaming at the other drivers – it serves no purpose other than to hear yourself screaming. The sad fact is that many potential site visitors are stuck in a rut with ie6 for one reason or another – but the clients (you know, the people who pay us?) still want us to reach every possible potential customer in spite of the level of their technical prowess. Therefore, we have to continue to test in ie6 an make sites comply. Thanks for the tips.

]]> By: Steve Norris http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-911969 Steve Norris Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:17:21 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-911969 I think sitepoint should be applauded for at least tackling what has become a real issue for most professional developers. The institution where I work has IE6 as the corporate desktop browser, so for us there is no choice in the matter. We have managed so far by using conditionals which has complicated matters slightly but does work. One of the issues I am facing though is how to test for cross browser compatibility during development work. Other than using something such as VMware there does not seem to be a reliable way of doing this, or for that matter a decent online reference for CSS support. I think this is a reason why IE6 is sometimes overlooked, as developers will aim for the most commonly used browsers and forget the others. This is not a good approach, since we should always cater for the widest possible group of users as a matter of course to make all web content more universally accessible, which surely is our ultimate goal? I think sitepoint should be applauded for at least tackling what has become a real issue for most professional developers.
The institution where I work has IE6 as the corporate desktop browser, so for us there is no choice in the matter. We have managed so far by using conditionals which has complicated matters slightly but does work.
One of the issues I am facing though is how to test for cross browser compatibility during development work. Other than using something such as VMware there does not seem to be a reliable way of doing this, or for that matter a decent online reference for CSS support. I think this is a reason why IE6 is sometimes overlooked, as developers will aim for the most commonly used browsers and forget the others. This is not a good approach, since we should always cater for the widest possible group of users as a matter of course to make all web content more universally accessible, which surely is our ultimate goal?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-911909 Anonymous Wed, 08 Apr 2009 06:28:17 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-911909 We all know that we need to support IE6 because some corporate policies about browser upgrade and people still using IE6, but it's interesting to see that in other sectors for example "analog" tv, govt has decided to drop analog signals, so now who hasn't yet got the decoder, they have to upgrade even though their number constitutes a large number of users, few months back in a news article I saw that the Indian govt decided to drop support for mobile phones which do not have some "IMEI" number and they also acknowledged that some 25 million handsets will become unusable, so that's quite a large number of users, those users have no other choice but to upgrade. In web this is different story because normal users(who shops and spends money using internet) don't like to upgrade. So I just want to say that if we provide pretty good experience for IE6 users then they will never feel the need to upgrade their browser, thus we'll end up supporting IE6 forever, so there has to be some sort of indication that for getting better and safer experience they should upgrade their browser and it's of interest to all the users, the developers and for the Web as a viable platform. The amount of cost and the working hours which is required to support IE6 should also be taken into account, so there should be a sort of roadmap that we can use to educate users about upgrading their browsers which will eventually reduce the usage of IE6 to some negligible number. Few months back I read one article which mentioned how a heavy traffic website has spent a lot of extra bandwidth by delivering additional CSS files to support IE6 users, so this is for interest to users also as they too are exhausting their bandwidth by using IE6 which actually requires more files to download because developers tend to use "IE6 specific" stylesheet to fix the bugs. Finally it's upto to site owner to decide what is the IE6 usage on their site and how they can educate users to upgrade, it's definitely not an instant solution but if it's planned carefully for a period of time then this can be achieved I believe. We all know that we need to support IE6 because some corporate policies about browser upgrade and people still using IE6, but it’s interesting to see that in other sectors for example “analog” tv, govt has decided to drop analog signals, so now who hasn’t yet got the decoder, they have to upgrade even though their number constitutes a large number of users, few months back in a news article I saw that the Indian govt decided to drop support for mobile phones which do not have some “IMEI” number and they also acknowledged that some 25 million handsets will become unusable, so that’s quite a large number of users, those users have no other choice but to upgrade. In web this is different story because normal users(who shops and spends money using internet) don’t like to upgrade.

So I just want to say that if we provide pretty good experience for IE6 users then they will never feel the need to upgrade their browser, thus we’ll end up supporting IE6 forever, so there has to be some sort of indication that for getting better and safer experience they should upgrade their browser and it’s of interest to all the users, the developers and for the Web as a viable platform. The amount of cost and the working hours which is required to support IE6 should also be taken into account, so there should be a sort of roadmap that we can use to educate users about upgrading their browsers which will eventually reduce the usage of IE6 to some negligible number.

Few months back I read one article which
mentioned how a heavy traffic website has spent a lot of extra bandwidth by delivering additional CSS files to support IE6 users, so this is for interest to users also as they too are exhausting their bandwidth by using IE6 which actually requires more files to download because developers tend to use “IE6 specific” stylesheet to fix the bugs.

Finally it’s upto to site owner to decide what is the IE6 usage on their site and how they can educate users to upgrade, it’s definitely not an instant solution but if it’s planned carefully for a period of time then this can be achieved I believe.

]]> By: brothercake http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-906349 brothercake Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:49:18 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-906349 #2 is not great advice - definitely don't go around adding position:relative to things withut thinking it through. Firstly because you may run into issues with contextual z-ordering (described here - http://www.udm4.com/manual/depth/positioning/#depth-positioning-zordering), and secondly because you may inadvertently trigger IE's additional z-index context bug (described here - http://therealcrisp.xs4all.nl/meuk/IE-zindexbug.html) #2 is not great advice – definitely don’t go around adding position:relative to things withut thinking it through. Firstly because you may run into issues with contextual z-ordering (described here – http://www.udm4.com/manual/depth/positioning/#depth-positioning-zordering), and secondly because you may inadvertently trigger IE’s additional z-index context bug (described here – http://therealcrisp.xs4all.nl/meuk/IE-zindexbug.html)

]]> By: Jay http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-901029 Jay Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:50:08 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-901029 Sooner or later, IE6 users have to be made aware that they are using a broken browser. I know everyone wants to accommodate IE6 - and the majority of browsers - but is it really doing anyone any good to coddle IE users? I don't think so. Ignorance is only bliss for as long as developers go out of their way to make it so. Sooner or later, IE6 users have to be made aware that they are using a broken browser. I know everyone wants to accommodate IE6 – and the majority of browsers – but is it really doing anyone any good to coddle IE users? I don’t think so. Ignorance is only bliss for as long as developers go out of their way to make it so.

]]> By: Dave http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-897921 Dave Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:54:01 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-897921 Having read a huge amount of the comments on this I can say that I understand that some people are unable to upgrade from IE6. The person I am most inclined to agree with is buzzsaw's comment "it also bothers me a great deal that so many developers are interested in serving the 25% with so much special attention. Why are we not interested in optimizing for the other 75%???" I am not saying that the users of IE6 do not deserve to get the information available to other users of the internet, but surely as buzzsaw states, if we continue to pander to this older browser the remaining IE6 populous will never have a "good" reason to upgrade ? If for example a financials company has a provider who writes code to provide info to other companies and decides to pull thier support for IE6 then surely that is a "good" reason to "upgrade" to a newer browser ? Just one other thought that springs to mind and I am playing devils advocate a little here by writing this, if the majority of internet users browse the internet using IE in one form or another, doesnt that make ie the standard ? Just something a thought I had to make you smile or scream ! Not sure which ! Don't flame me for that I was kinda kidding, but it is one to think about ! Having read a huge amount of the comments on this I can say that I understand that some people are unable to upgrade from IE6.

The person I am most inclined to agree with is buzzsaw’s comment

“it also bothers me a great deal that so many developers are interested in serving the 25% with so much special attention. Why are we not interested in optimizing for the other 75%???”

I am not saying that the users of IE6 do not deserve to get the information available to other users of the internet, but surely as buzzsaw states, if we continue to pander to this older browser the remaining IE6 populous will never have a “good” reason to upgrade ?

If for example a financials company has a provider who writes code to provide info to other companies and decides to pull thier support for IE6 then surely that is a “good” reason to “upgrade” to a newer browser ?

Just one other thought that springs to mind and I am playing devils advocate a little here by writing this, if the majority of internet users browse the internet using IE in one form or another, doesnt that make ie the standard ?

Just something a thought I had to make you smile or scream ! Not sure which !

Don’t flame me for that I was kinda kidding, but it is one to think about !

]]> By: sirCamelot http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-896988 sirCamelot Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:51:03 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-896988 btw those users with illegal copies of Windows don't deserve to use IE and browse the web anyway... btw those users with illegal copies of Windows don’t deserve to use IE and browse the web anyway…

]]> By: peach http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-896281 peach Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:40:40 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-896281 Never use the important selector to target browsers! Just maintain a separate internet explorer stylesheet with conditional comments. Besides the accessibility issues already mentioned, using !important is horrible stylesheet architecture. First you put height:20%!important on a box selected as .block.... and then days later you've forgotten about it and you're wondering why your code doesn't work on #footer .block and .sidebar .block. In the end you'd realize you will have to add more !important statements on the more deeply targetted .block element which will also "break" the hack of using !important to target a browser. It's just a bad idea overall, use conditional comments instead: http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512.aspx Adding !important statements to your stylesheets for every browser targetting makes it an unmanageable mess! Never use the important selector to target browsers! Just maintain a separate internet explorer stylesheet with conditional comments.

Besides the accessibility issues already mentioned, using !important is horrible stylesheet architecture.

First you put height:20%!important on a box selected as .block…. and then days later you’ve forgotten about it and you’re wondering why your code doesn’t work on #footer .block and .sidebar .block. In the end you’d realize you will have to add more !important statements on the more deeply targetted .block element which will also “break” the hack of using !important to target a browser. It’s just a bad idea overall, use conditional comments instead:
http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512.aspx

Adding !important statements to your stylesheets for every browser targetting makes it an unmanageable mess!

]]> By: banago http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/06/10-fixes-for-ie6-problems/comment-page-2/#comment-895999 banago Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:40:44 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=6757#comment-895999 Perhaps the best post I have ever read about IE6 web massacre. Thanks very much! Perhaps the best post I have ever read about IE6 web massacre. Thanks very much!

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