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	<title>Comments on: 5 Top Tips to Beautify Your HTML and Enrich Your Content</title>
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	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-876376</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-876376</guid>
		<description>I have always been told the opposite for number 1 as well, but like a commentor above states, there has been no proof of either method being liked more by search engines.

Thanks for the share.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always been told the opposite for number 1 as well, but like a commentor above states, there has been no proof of either method being liked more by search engines.</p>
<p>Thanks for the share.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Meitar</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-876013</link>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-876013</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-875930&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Connor&lt;/a&gt;, you&#039;re 100% correct. It&#039;s much more common to see less experienced front-end developers overuse IDs and classes rather than not use them enough, however, so I believe that urging them to minimize their use of them will actually achieve a greater overall balance. I tried to say that by discussing the tension between that tip and the tip before it. Perhaps that paragraph could have been further underscored.

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#comment-875930&quot;&gt;id and class attributes should be of hugely greater priority than comments when trying to shave bytes off the markup length.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And indeed they are. My use of the word &quot;leaner&quot; in the section on reducing ID and class names was actually an indication not to byte size but to grouping, and upon a second reading after reading your comment I do see how that sentence could cause a misinterpretation. I could have picked a better word there.

&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-875997&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Zapruder&lt;/a&gt;, you don&#039;t need to comment every closing tag, just the ones that are non-obvious in your document. It just so happens that these are also typically the ones you want to include either ID or class names or some other metadata about, so I find that in practice this actually works out rather conveniently. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-875930" rel="nofollow">Connor</a>, you&#8217;re 100% correct. It&#8217;s much more common to see less experienced front-end developers overuse IDs and classes rather than not use them enough, however, so I believe that urging them to minimize their use of them will actually achieve a greater overall balance. I tried to say that by discussing the tension between that tip and the tip before it. Perhaps that paragraph could have been further underscored.</p>
<blockquote cite="#comment-875930"><p>id and class attributes should be of hugely greater priority than comments when trying to shave bytes off the markup length.</p></blockquote>
<p>And indeed they are. My use of the word &#8220;leaner&#8221; in the section on reducing ID and class names was actually an indication not to byte size but to grouping, and upon a second reading after reading your comment I do see how that sentence could cause a misinterpretation. I could have picked a better word there.</p>
<p><a href="#comment-875997" rel="nofollow">Zapruder</a>, you don&#8217;t need to comment every closing tag, just the ones that are non-obvious in your document. It just so happens that these are also typically the ones you want to include either ID or class names or some other metadata about, so I find that in practice this actually works out rather conveniently. :)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zapruder</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-875997</link>
		<dc:creator>Zapruder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-875997</guid>
		<description>Not bad suggestions, but if I&#039;m supposed to minimize class and title declarations then what am I supposed to use to comment the tag close with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not bad suggestions, but if I&#8217;m supposed to minimize class and title declarations then what am I supposed to use to comment the tag close with?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: watershed</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-875960</link>
		<dc:creator>watershed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-875960</guid>
		<description>Like you, IANASEOP. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;...there are many other things that SEO efforts should be focused on that will garner far greater net gains than using only fully-qualified or absolute URIs.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nicely put -- sounds good to me. 

There are perhaps parallels with the SEO case made for semantic markup. There are good enough reasons to markup semantically without falling into the trap of overstating the SEO benefits.

Thanks for your answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like you, IANASEOP. </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;there are many other things that SEO efforts should be focused on that will garner far greater net gains than using only fully-qualified or absolute URIs.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nicely put &#8212; sounds good to me. </p>
<p>There are perhaps parallels with the SEO case made for semantic markup. There are good enough reasons to markup semantically without falling into the trap of overstating the SEO benefits.</p>
<p>Thanks for your answer.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Meitar</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-875954</link>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-875954</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-875928&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;watershed&lt;/a&gt;, I suppose I should preface what I&#039;m about to say with IANASEOP (I am not an SEO professional), but in my experience, as long as the resulting fully-qualified URI of the resource remains the same (i.e., each URI references one and only one thing), then there is no difference between relative and absolute URIs. Most SEO professionals tend to prefer absolute URIs under the &lt;em&gt;assumption&lt;/em&gt; that search engines prefer them, but I&#039;ve never seen hard-and-fast proof that this is the case.

Another case in which they sometimes prefer absolute URIs is when the URI itself is keyword-rich. In these cases, linking from one page of an article series to another with a relative URI might omit this perceived-as-valuable portion of the URI. Once again, I&#039;ve never seen evidence that this is a major weighting factor in SEO results, and I&#039;ve personally never encountered any major problems using one method over the other (and I have tried both over the years).

Finally, I&#039;ll say that there are many other things that SEO efforts should be focused on that will garner far greater net gains than using only fully-qualified or absolute URIs. I can make the argument that writing &quot;beautiful&quot; markup is like using fresh food as ingredients for your dinner. That is to say, you could spend $50,000 on an SEO campaign which would do just as much for you as spending $5,000 on getting your markup &quot;right&quot; from the start.

I hope this is what you were asking, yes? :) In any event, it was a good question! Thanks for the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-875928" rel="nofollow">watershed</a>, I suppose I should preface what I&#8217;m about to say with IANASEOP (I am not an SEO professional), but in my experience, as long as the resulting fully-qualified URI of the resource remains the same (i.e., each URI references one and only one thing), then there is no difference between relative and absolute URIs. Most SEO professionals tend to prefer absolute URIs under the <em>assumption</em> that search engines prefer them, but I&#8217;ve never seen hard-and-fast proof that this is the case.</p>
<p>Another case in which they sometimes prefer absolute URIs is when the URI itself is keyword-rich. In these cases, linking from one page of an article series to another with a relative URI might omit this perceived-as-valuable portion of the URI. Once again, I&#8217;ve never seen evidence that this is a major weighting factor in SEO results, and I&#8217;ve personally never encountered any major problems using one method over the other (and I have tried both over the years).</p>
<p>Finally, I&#8217;ll say that there are many other things that SEO efforts should be focused on that will garner far greater net gains than using only fully-qualified or absolute URIs. I can make the argument that writing &#8220;beautiful&#8221; markup is like using fresh food as ingredients for your dinner. That is to say, you could spend $50,000 on an SEO campaign which would do just as much for you as spending $5,000 on getting your markup &#8220;right&#8221; from the start.</p>
<p>I hope this is what you were asking, yes? :) In any event, it was a good question! Thanks for the comment.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-875930</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-875930</guid>
		<description>Minimising the use of &quot;class&quot; and &quot;id&quot; attributes will make unobtrusive DOM manipulation slower and more processor intensive on the browser front. I&#039;d suggest that adding these pragmatically will have a chiefly positive effect on markup in these circumstances.
Additionally, the markup length saved by removing these are quickly offset by the additional structural markup that would be required to uniquely identify elements in a classless, id-less DOM.
It seems counterproductive to offer this approach as a way to reduce markup, only to suggest the use of extra comments and title attributes in subsequent points. Markup, by definition, should be more machine-legible than human-legible, hence id and class attributes should be of hugely greater priority than comments when trying to shave bytes off the markup length.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minimising the use of &#8220;class&#8221; and &#8220;id&#8221; attributes will make unobtrusive DOM manipulation slower and more processor intensive on the browser front. I&#8217;d suggest that adding these pragmatically will have a chiefly positive effect on markup in these circumstances.<br />
Additionally, the markup length saved by removing these are quickly offset by the additional structural markup that would be required to uniquely identify elements in a classless, id-less DOM.<br />
It seems counterproductive to offer this approach as a way to reduce markup, only to suggest the use of extra comments and title attributes in subsequent points. Markup, by definition, should be more machine-legible than human-legible, hence id and class attributes should be of hugely greater priority than comments when trying to shave bytes off the markup length.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: watershed</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-875928</link>
		<dc:creator>watershed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-875928</guid>
		<description>Good stuff. 

The only tip that&#039;s new to me is the first one. Your point is well made, but I&#039;ve heard it said on several occasions that there are SEO benefits to using absolute URIs. To do so would I guess be a case of the cart leading the horse in terms of beautiful markup, but would you care to comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff. </p>
<p>The only tip that&#8217;s new to me is the first one. Your point is well made, but I&#8217;ve heard it said on several occasions that there are SEO benefits to using absolute URIs. To do so would I guess be a case of the cart leading the horse in terms of beautiful markup, but would you care to comment?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Meitar</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-875859</link>
		<dc:creator>Meitar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 04:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-875859</guid>
		<description>Those are both good points, &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-875849&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tyssen&lt;/a&gt;. I think that&#039;s why the &lt;code&gt;title&lt;/code&gt; attribute is defined by the HTML specification as specifically providing &lt;em&gt;supplemental&lt;/em&gt; information. It&#039;s still a bit tricky to sometimes correctly determine what &quot;supplemental&quot; means in a particular context, but that&#039;s why we humans still have jobs writing HTML, right? ;)

And on the note of humans still writing HTML, your &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-875853&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;second point&lt;/a&gt; about someone scraping content wholesale from a site without editing it is also good. But if you expect people to do something like that, then I&#039;d consider that situation to be &quot;your own content will be published over multiple protocols.&quot; In this case, that protocol just happens to be &lt;code&gt;content-thievery://&lt;/code&gt;. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are both good points, <a href="#comment-875849" rel="nofollow">Tyssen</a>. I think that&#8217;s why the <code>title</code> attribute is defined by the HTML specification as specifically providing <em>supplemental</em> information. It&#8217;s still a bit tricky to sometimes correctly determine what &#8220;supplemental&#8221; means in a particular context, but that&#8217;s why we humans still have jobs writing HTML, right? ;)</p>
<p>And on the note of humans still writing HTML, your <a href="#comment-875853" rel="nofollow">second point</a> about someone scraping content wholesale from a site without editing it is also good. But if you expect people to do something like that, then I&#8217;d consider that situation to be &#8220;your own content will be published over multiple protocols.&#8221; In this case, that protocol just happens to be <code>content-thievery://</code>. :)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tyssen</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-875853</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyssen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 03:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-875853</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There’s little reason to encode a link with a URI such as http://example.com/my-page/ when /my-page/ will do.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I can think of one and it&#039;s served me in the past: if someone copies content wholesale from your site without editing it, and that content includes full links to other pages on your site, it&#039;ll often raise a flag in the form of trackbacks to the offending pages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There’s little reason to encode a link with a URI such as <a href="http://example.com/my-page/" rel="nofollow">http://example.com/my-page/</a> when /my-page/ will do.</p></blockquote>
<p>I can think of one and it&#8217;s served me in the past: if someone copies content wholesale from your site without editing it, and that content includes full links to other pages on your site, it&#8217;ll often raise a flag in the form of trackbacks to the offending pages.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tyssen</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/02/09/5-top-tips-to-beautify-your-html-and-enrich-your-content/comment-page-1/#comment-875849</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyssen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 03:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3217#comment-875849</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d suggest that you should consider surrounding content when contemplating using the title attribute. For instance with links, I see a lot of titles that say nothing more than what the link text already does, thus making it redundant. (The visual editor of Wordpress is another offender giving images the same alt and title attributes). 

In your example of a quote from a Barack Obama speech, if the quote is preceded by a heading or a sentence that introduces the quote, I&#039;d think the title attribute would be redundant, and keep in mind that while most sighted people might not be affected by such duplication if they don&#039;t hover over the element, screenreader users might hear the same content twice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d suggest that you should consider surrounding content when contemplating using the title attribute. For instance with links, I see a lot of titles that say nothing more than what the link text already does, thus making it redundant. (The visual editor of Wordpress is another offender giving images the same alt and title attributes). </p>
<p>In your example of a quote from a Barack Obama speech, if the quote is preceded by a heading or a sentence that introduces the quote, I&#8217;d think the title attribute would be redundant, and keep in mind that while most sighted people might not be affected by such duplication if they don&#8217;t hover over the element, screenreader users might hear the same content twice.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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