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	<title>Comments on: Opera 10&#8217;s Y2K Bug: Browser Detection Goes Bad</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:09:39 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey D.</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-886525</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-886525</guid>
		<description>Hi, 
Opera why not just have websites detect opera 10 as &quot;opera 9&quot; 
Opera 9.63 the best brower to-date! opera 10 is not as good. 
Pz. keep up the good work you put into opera 9.x</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
Opera why not just have websites detect opera 10 as &#8220;opera 9&#8243;<br />
Opera 9.63 the best brower to-date! opera 10 is not as good.<br />
Pz. keep up the good work you put into opera 9.x</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan Schulz</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-857993</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Schulz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-857993</guid>
		<description>Ben, we&#039;ve discussed that on this blog already.  It won&#039;t work.  Especially with Internet Explorer on the verge of reaching version 10 itself (IE 8 comes out this year; presuming they don&#039;t rest on their laurels like they did after IE 6 launched, they&#039;ll be very busy working on IE 9 and finally IE X - I mean 10.)

Right now people seem not to be giving a rat&#039;s bottom about Opera, but when Internet Explorer hits version 10, watch all those rats scurrying to get off the sinking ship that&#039;s called the SS &lt;i&gt;Browser Sniffer&lt;/i&gt;.  (Either that or just hack their pointless and utterly useless scripts again.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, we&#8217;ve discussed that on this blog already.  It won&#8217;t work.  Especially with Internet Explorer on the verge of reaching version 10 itself (IE 8 comes out this year; presuming they don&#8217;t rest on their laurels like they did after IE 6 launched, they&#8217;ll be very busy working on IE 9 and finally IE X &#8211; I mean 10.)</p>
<p>Right now people seem not to be giving a rat&#8217;s bottom about Opera, but when Internet Explorer hits version 10, watch all those rats scurrying to get off the sinking ship that&#8217;s called the SS <i>Browser Sniffer</i>.  (Either that or just hack their pointless and utterly useless scripts again.)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-857777</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-857777</guid>
		<description>Perhaps Opera should consider alpha-numeric numbering, going from 9 to A, and using the alphabet to continue up to 36 before entering double digits. I find it frustrating sometimes that Gmail either seems engineered to favour Firefox, heavily promoted by Google, or Opera seems engineered to be too awkward to comply with Gmail&#039;s needs (it works fine in Epiphany, and Midori...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps Opera should consider alpha-numeric numbering, going from 9 to A, and using the alphabet to continue up to 36 before entering double digits. I find it frustrating sometimes that Gmail either seems engineered to favour Firefox, heavily promoted by Google, or Opera seems engineered to be too awkward to comply with Gmail&#8217;s needs (it works fine in Epiphany, and Midori&#8230;)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Deran</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-856948</link>
		<dc:creator>Deran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 18:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-856948</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If they can’t be bothered to get their website working properly, they don’t deserve my custom.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That’s of very high self esteem but if you deal with something like Bank of America and expect them to fix their web system which would probably cost several thousand dollars and  a length approval process (you know from IT department to finance and on and on) guess who is going to lose; it’s no one else but you.  Imagine maintaining your browser loyalty and expecting them to change their web system just for a minority of their customers. Besides, Opera isn’t the only browser in the world and (top 5th, not the best) and this problem DID NOT HAPPEN BEFORE AND OPERA IS THE ONLY BROWSER which makes an issue. Think about it; when there are larger things at play. 
Seriously, I really doubt whether someone waits till the bank fixes their site to make an emergency transaction online, rather simply opening another browser and making the transaction without delaying a second.  Think about it; it’s Opera which we all praise which is going to tarnish its reputation.  We can’t expect everyone to be tech savvy like all of us here. 
Ideally, what Opera should do is, if it ever wishes to maintain its reputation, to alter the version into something else, maintain its popularity while the industry, being aware of this issue now, create some sort of a standard to change shoddily coded web sites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If they can’t be bothered to get their website working properly, they don’t deserve my custom.</p></blockquote>
<p>That’s of very high self esteem but if you deal with something like Bank of America and expect them to fix their web system which would probably cost several thousand dollars and  a length approval process (you know from IT department to finance and on and on) guess who is going to lose; it’s no one else but you.  Imagine maintaining your browser loyalty and expecting them to change their web system just for a minority of their customers. Besides, Opera isn’t the only browser in the world and (top 5th, not the best) and this problem DID NOT HAPPEN BEFORE AND OPERA IS THE ONLY BROWSER which makes an issue. Think about it; when there are larger things at play.<br />
Seriously, I really doubt whether someone waits till the bank fixes their site to make an emergency transaction online, rather simply opening another browser and making the transaction without delaying a second.  Think about it; it’s Opera which we all praise which is going to tarnish its reputation.  We can’t expect everyone to be tech savvy like all of us here.<br />
Ideally, what Opera should do is, if it ever wishes to maintain its reputation, to alter the version into something else, maintain its popularity while the industry, being aware of this issue now, create some sort of a standard to change shoddily coded web sites.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stevie D</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-856908</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevie D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-856908</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Moreover, being practical, if I encountered this while browsing, I’d simply open the site either in IE or Firefox without going to worry about Opera.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If I encounter a site that doesn&#039;t let me in using Opera, I put it into stealth mode and masquerade as Firefox. If I still can&#039;t get in, I&#039;ll go to another website. If they can&#039;t be bothered to get their website working properly, they don&#039;t deserve my custom.
&lt;blockquote&gt;The development team of Opera is the single party that can solve this issue out than waiting for other companies to fix their sites.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Er ... no. Other browsers will eventually reach v10 and the problem will arise again. Browser manufacturers who are doing things properly should not have to hack and bodge their correct systems to allow for bad practice elsewhere. With the masking options that Opera provides (and has done for years) and, as I said earlier, the small number of sites where I expect this to be an issue at all, I very much doubt that there will be more than a handful of sites that Opera 9 users can access and Opera 10 users can&#039;t. If those sites don&#039;t want the custom of clued-up web users, that&#039;s their problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Moreover, being practical, if I encountered this while browsing, I’d simply open the site either in IE or Firefox without going to worry about Opera.</p></blockquote>
<p>If I encounter a site that doesn&#8217;t let me in using Opera, I put it into stealth mode and masquerade as Firefox. If I still can&#8217;t get in, I&#8217;ll go to another website. If they can&#8217;t be bothered to get their website working properly, they don&#8217;t deserve my custom.</p>
<blockquote><p>The development team of Opera is the single party that can solve this issue out than waiting for other companies to fix their sites.</p></blockquote>
<p>Er &#8230; no. Other browsers will eventually reach v10 and the problem will arise again. Browser manufacturers who are doing things properly should not have to hack and bodge their correct systems to allow for bad practice elsewhere. With the masking options that Opera provides (and has done for years) and, as I said earlier, the small number of sites where I expect this to be an issue at all, I very much doubt that there will be more than a handful of sites that Opera 9 users can access and Opera 10 users can&#8217;t. If those sites don&#8217;t want the custom of clued-up web users, that&#8217;s their problem.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Silver Firefly</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-856851</link>
		<dc:creator>Silver Firefly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-856851</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a typical example of a defeatist attitude and it&#039;s way too prevalent. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a typical example of a defeatist attitude and it&#8217;s way too prevalent. :(</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Deran</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-856820</link>
		<dc:creator>Deran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-856820</guid>
		<description>Look guys. Why don’t we forget what has already happened and concern about how to overcome this problem. Even though I’m a very loyal Opera user, my suggestion is to change the version number into some other form. As we all know the number of sites that use shoddy browser detection code is too much to be fixed. Besides some of those companies outsource their web development work and the service providers may no longer be there for them. Moreover, being practical, if I encountered this while browsing, I’d simply open the site either in IE or Firefox without going to worry about Opera. The development team of Opera is the single party that can solve this issue out than waiting for other companies to fix their sites. This is just my opinion tho. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look guys. Why don’t we forget what has already happened and concern about how to overcome this problem. Even though I’m a very loyal Opera user, my suggestion is to change the version number into some other form. As we all know the number of sites that use shoddy browser detection code is too much to be fixed. Besides some of those companies outsource their web development work and the service providers may no longer be there for them. Moreover, being practical, if I encountered this while browsing, I’d simply open the site either in IE or Firefox without going to worry about Opera. The development team of Opera is the single party that can solve this issue out than waiting for other companies to fix their sites. This is just my opinion tho. :)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Silver Firefly</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-856027</link>
		<dc:creator>Silver Firefly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-856027</guid>
		<description>I think a lot of it is down to laziness. Why should we expect Opera to use hex for versioning when programmers need to get off their backsides? After all, isn&#039;t problem solving a part of programming?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a lot of it is down to laziness. Why should we expect Opera to use hex for versioning when programmers need to get off their backsides? After all, isn&#8217;t problem solving a part of programming?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan Schulz</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-855611</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Schulz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-855611</guid>
		<description>Given that our planet doesn&#039;t even have a population of 7 billion, I&#039;m sure that those numbers were just made up on the spot.  Besides, if there really were 2 billion Safari users, Microsoft would be out of business, there&#039;d be no need for the Gecko project, and we&#039;d all all be praising our Macs.

But there aren&#039;t, and so we&#039;re not.  If you want to know why Opera&#039;s &quot;still in business&quot; as you put it, it&#039;s because their primary market is the mobile browser industry, not the desktop.  Besides, and I&#039;m sure many will agree with me on this - the main two impediments to Opera being adopted by many on the desktop are a lack of marketing/advertising and the fact that Opera was once NOT FREE - even in 7.5 you had to pay to remove the advertisements.  That&#039;s a pretty powerful bad taste to remove from one&#039;s mouth if you know what I mean (even though Opera is now free - as in beer).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that our planet doesn&#8217;t even have a population of 7 billion, I&#8217;m sure that those numbers were just made up on the spot.  Besides, if there really were 2 billion Safari users, Microsoft would be out of business, there&#8217;d be no need for the Gecko project, and we&#8217;d all all be praising our Macs.</p>
<p>But there aren&#8217;t, and so we&#8217;re not.  If you want to know why Opera&#8217;s &#8220;still in business&#8221; as you put it, it&#8217;s because their primary market is the mobile browser industry, not the desktop.  Besides, and I&#8217;m sure many will agree with me on this &#8211; the main two impediments to Opera being adopted by many on the desktop are a lack of marketing/advertising and the fact that Opera was once NOT FREE &#8211; even in 7.5 you had to pay to remove the advertisements.  That&#8217;s a pretty powerful bad taste to remove from one&#8217;s mouth if you know what I mean (even though Opera is now free &#8211; as in beer).</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: omnicity</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/12/20/opera-10s-y2k-bug-browser-detection-goes-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-855606</link>
		<dc:creator>omnicity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3448#comment-855606</guid>
		<description>@Dan Shulz
Going by those figures, I believe that Safari has a user base of around 2 billion, and Gecko around 20 billion, so yes it is insignificant. I really don&#039;t understand why Opera are still in business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan Shulz<br />
Going by those figures, I believe that Safari has a user base of around 2 billion, and Gecko around 20 billion, so yes it is insignificant. I really don&#8217;t understand why Opera are still in business.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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