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	<title>Comments on: Pixel Fonts a Hot Button Topic at WDS08</title>
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	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
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		<title>By: tactics</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-856956</link>
		<dc:creator>tactics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-856956</guid>
		<description>Well Michael, I&#039;ve worked as a frontend developer for several of the top websites in North America. So let me tell you a little something about my experience in the &quot;real world&quot;.

In a perfect world, accessibility would come first. In the &quot;real world&quot; it&#039;s an afterthought for most companies. I&#039;ve sat in meetings and heard comments from managers like &quot;why would a blind person want to use the internet?&quot;, and &quot;our statistics show all of our users have javascript, so why should we make it unobtrusive?&quot;

I have argued for using relative font sizing in all of these companies and have been shot down every time. Corporations care if their site looks good and runs good for the majority of their visitors. That&#039;s what makes them money.

IE6 is down to less than 20% of the market share right now, and it&#039;s continuing to drop by .5 - 1% per month. I&#039;m on a web accessibility list populated by a lot of &quot;real world&quot; people with disabilities, all of them know how to resize their text, and not a single one of them uses IE6. And anyone who doesn&#039;t know how to resize their text, probably also doesn&#039;t know how to increase the default size of their text in their browser settings either. So setting the font size to &quot;.75em&quot; is going to have exactly the same effect in reality as using &quot;12px&quot;

You know who still uses IE6? People with bootleg copies of Windows XP. That&#039;s because you can&#039;t install IE7 without service pack 2, and you can&#039;t install sp2 without a legit copy of Windows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Michael, I&#8217;ve worked as a frontend developer for several of the top websites in North America. So let me tell you a little something about my experience in the &#8220;real world&#8221;.</p>
<p>In a perfect world, accessibility would come first. In the &#8220;real world&#8221; it&#8217;s an afterthought for most companies. I&#8217;ve sat in meetings and heard comments from managers like &#8220;why would a blind person want to use the internet?&#8221;, and &#8220;our statistics show all of our users have javascript, so why should we make it unobtrusive?&#8221;</p>
<p>I have argued for using relative font sizing in all of these companies and have been shot down every time. Corporations care if their site looks good and runs good for the majority of their visitors. That&#8217;s what makes them money.</p>
<p>IE6 is down to less than 20% of the market share right now, and it&#8217;s continuing to drop by .5 &#8211; 1% per month. I&#8217;m on a web accessibility list populated by a lot of &#8220;real world&#8221; people with disabilities, all of them know how to resize their text, and not a single one of them uses IE6. And anyone who doesn&#8217;t know how to resize their text, probably also doesn&#8217;t know how to increase the default size of their text in their browser settings either. So setting the font size to &#8220;.75em&#8221; is going to have exactly the same effect in reality as using &#8220;12px&#8221;</p>
<p>You know who still uses IE6? People with bootleg copies of Windows XP. That&#8217;s because you can&#8217;t install IE7 without service pack 2, and you can&#8217;t install sp2 without a legit copy of Windows.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-856954</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-856954</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;If you had bad vision and you went to a website and tried to resize the text, only to find out you couldn’t, wouldn’t you do a little research to find out why?&lt;/em&gt;

This sort of comment is indicative of someone who spends very little time out in the real world... 

A large - I would suggest a majority - percentage of computer users do not know how to resize text, think &quot;Google&quot; is *the internet* and are fearful when their browser  or operating system suggests they upgrade. If your target market is anything older than the teens and 20 somethings, you&#039;d better be designing for readability by those with less than perfect vision. Demographics, at least in North America, suggest that&#039;s a growing market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>If you had bad vision and you went to a website and tried to resize the text, only to find out you couldn’t, wouldn’t you do a little research to find out why?</em></p>
<p>This sort of comment is indicative of someone who spends very little time out in the real world&#8230; </p>
<p>A large &#8211; I would suggest a majority &#8211; percentage of computer users do not know how to resize text, think &#8220;Google&#8221; is *the internet* and are fearful when their browser  or operating system suggests they upgrade. If your target market is anything older than the teens and 20 somethings, you&#8217;d better be designing for readability by those with less than perfect vision. Demographics, at least in North America, suggest that&#8217;s a growing market.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tactics</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-805468</link>
		<dc:creator>tactics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 04:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-805468</guid>
		<description>In all browsers (IE7, FF, and Safari 2+) except IE6, the user can increase their font size simply by holding down the ctrl (or Apple) key and pressing the + button, even if the font size is specified in pixels. 

Up until recently, I was adamant about specifying pixels in ems, but then I stopped and thought about it...

If you had bad vision and you went to a website and tried to resize the text, only to find out you couldn&#039;t, wouldn&#039;t you do a little research to find out why? And once you found out that the problem was unique to IE6, wouldn&#039;t you switch browsers? And if for some reason you absolutely couldn&#039;t switch browsers, don&#039;t you think you would figure out that you can override the size of the font on all web pages by using the accessibility settings in IE6? Just because people have bad vision, doesn&#039;t mean they are stupid, and it&#039;s time we stopped treating them as such. 

It&#039;s fine to use ems if you are building a small, simple site. But I worked for one of the largest social networking sites in the world and quickly figured out it was just not realistic to use ems. The designers hand you a comp where everything is specified in pixels, and you can&#039;t sit there and do a bunch of math to try and figure out what the size of the parent element was, what percentage of that you need to use, etc.

All that aside, IE6 is almost a decade old and it&#039;s a piece of garbage. If we all stopped pandering to it, it would go away a lot quicker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In all browsers (IE7, FF, and Safari 2+) except IE6, the user can increase their font size simply by holding down the ctrl (or Apple) key and pressing the + button, even if the font size is specified in pixels. </p>
<p>Up until recently, I was adamant about specifying pixels in ems, but then I stopped and thought about it&#8230;</p>
<p>If you had bad vision and you went to a website and tried to resize the text, only to find out you couldn&#8217;t, wouldn&#8217;t you do a little research to find out why? And once you found out that the problem was unique to IE6, wouldn&#8217;t you switch browsers? And if for some reason you absolutely couldn&#8217;t switch browsers, don&#8217;t you think you would figure out that you can override the size of the font on all web pages by using the accessibility settings in IE6? Just because people have bad vision, doesn&#8217;t mean they are stupid, and it&#8217;s time we stopped treating them as such. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s fine to use ems if you are building a small, simple site. But I worked for one of the largest social networking sites in the world and quickly figured out it was just not realistic to use ems. The designers hand you a comp where everything is specified in pixels, and you can&#8217;t sit there and do a bunch of math to try and figure out what the size of the parent element was, what percentage of that you need to use, etc.</p>
<p>All that aside, IE6 is almost a decade old and it&#8217;s a piece of garbage. If we all stopped pandering to it, it would go away a lot quicker.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Iza</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-805392</link>
		<dc:creator>Iza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 02:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-805392</guid>
		<description>I was looking forward to this presentation but I left disappointed. Jeff&#039;s comment about using absolute font sizes is just indicative of, what appears to be, his entire approach to web typography. In his quest for elegant and &#039;subtle&#039;, pixel-perfect typography he seemed to have forgotten what medium he&#039;s designing for! In fact, most of his advice can be classified as bad practice for web design. I hope he payed attention to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.webdirections.org/resources/jeffrey-veen-designing-our-way-through-data/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;keynote that Jeff Veen delivered&lt;/a&gt; the very next day because it contained a clear message for him: if you&#039;re designing for the web, let go of control. Web design should be elegant and flexible, leaving end users in control of their browsing experience. And one more comment for Jeff... I thought that green on green was so subtle, it was barely readable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was looking forward to this presentation but I left disappointed. Jeff&#8217;s comment about using absolute font sizes is just indicative of, what appears to be, his entire approach to web typography. In his quest for elegant and &#8217;subtle&#8217;, pixel-perfect typography he seemed to have forgotten what medium he&#8217;s designing for! In fact, most of his advice can be classified as bad practice for web design. I hope he payed attention to the <a href="http://www.webdirections.org/resources/jeffrey-veen-designing-our-way-through-data/" rel="nofollow">keynote that Jeff Veen delivered</a> the very next day because it contained a clear message for him: if you&#8217;re designing for the web, let go of control. Web design should be elegant and flexible, leaving end users in control of their browsing experience. And one more comment for Jeff&#8230; I thought that green on green was so subtle, it was barely readable.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: randywehrs</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-804472</link>
		<dc:creator>randywehrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-804472</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I didn’t think Safari supported page zooming at the moment?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Safari 3.1.2 does, text magnification only.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I didn’t think Safari supported page zooming at the moment?</p></blockquote>
<p>Safari 3.1.2 does, text magnification only.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stormrider</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-804260</link>
		<dc:creator>Stormrider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 11:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-804260</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t think Safari supported page zooming at the moment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t think Safari supported page zooming at the moment?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jubarr</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-804089</link>
		<dc:creator>Jubarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 00:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-804089</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve used font sizes in pixel short after IE7 appear, about the users of IE6, for me they get what they deserve for using a crappy browser. if everything look not to broken on it i&#039;m ok with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve used font sizes in pixel short after IE7 appear, about the users of IE6, for me they get what they deserve for using a crappy browser. if everything look not to broken on it i&#8217;m ok with that.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: kay.smoljak</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-803242</link>
		<dc:creator>kay.smoljak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 07:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-803242</guid>
		<description>I agree with Derek - until IE6 is stamped off the face of the earth (or at least until it&#039;s usage drops below 2%, which is when I stopped supporting Netscape 4) it&#039;s irresponsible for developers to stop making allowances for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Derek &#8211; until IE6 is stamped off the face of the earth (or at least until it&#8217;s usage drops below 2%, which is when I stopped supporting Netscape 4) it&#8217;s irresponsible for developers to stop making allowances for it.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael Sean Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-803019</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Sean Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-803019</guid>
		<description>I think Mr. Featherstone himself is making quite an assumption: If these users are so uninformed that they don&#039;t know there are other browsers out there, they probably also won&#039;t know about text resizing. Or am I mistaken?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mr. Featherstone himself is making quite an assumption: If these users are so uninformed that they don&#8217;t know there are other browsers out there, they probably also won&#8217;t know about text resizing. Or am I mistaken?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mdrisser</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/10/03/pixel-fonts-a-hot-button-topic-at-wds08/comment-page-1/#comment-803007</link>
		<dc:creator>mdrisser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=3054#comment-803007</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Jeff Croft on this one. I tend to mostly use pixel font sizes. I think that the majority of people who need the ability to resize text have that ability through not only the browser, but also other tools.

Whether or not Microsoft or any other vendor chooses to support a particular browser, OS, App, whatever is, at best, an unreliable guage on whether or not to support it ourselves.

I think that the need is less in supporting older browsers and more in educating people. We need to be concentrating on ways to educate, rather than spending too much time supporting outdated technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Jeff Croft on this one. I tend to mostly use pixel font sizes. I think that the majority of people who need the ability to resize text have that ability through not only the browser, but also other tools.</p>
<p>Whether or not Microsoft or any other vendor chooses to support a particular browser, OS, App, whatever is, at best, an unreliable guage on whether or not to support it ourselves.</p>
<p>I think that the need is less in supporting older browsers and more in educating people. We need to be concentrating on ways to educate, rather than spending too much time supporting outdated technology.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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