Comments on: Blockquote: Then and Now http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/ News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com. Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:18:42 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: sampablokuper http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-793969 sampablokuper Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:28:42 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-793969 @C. Ankerstjerne, I agree wholeheartedly with your comment of August 13th, 2008 (9:52 pm). I've been looking for someone else with this point of view for a while! Fortunately, HTML5 improves upon the blockquote element somewhat, and using HTML5 it should (I think) be possible to use a cite element with the contents you gave in your example as the reference for a blockquote. So, some progress is being made - albeit slowly. spk @C. Ankerstjerne,

I agree wholeheartedly with your comment of August 13th, 2008 (9:52 pm). I’ve been looking for someone else with this point of view for a while!

Fortunately, HTML5 improves upon the blockquote element somewhat, and using HTML5 it should (I think) be possible to use a cite element with the contents you gave in your example as the reference for a blockquote. So, some progress is being made – albeit slowly.

spk

]]> By: C. Ankerstjerne http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-779313 C. Ankerstjerne Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:52:38 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-779313 The microformat still isn't usable, in that it does not include the elements of a correct biographical listing. Ideally, a microformat for properly formatted biographical listings would look something like this (example is taken directly from ISO 690:1987, p. 2): <pre><code class='html'><cite> <span class="primary_responsibility">LOMINADZE, DG</span>. <i><span class="title">Cyclotron waves in plasma</span></i>. <span class="subordinate_responsibility"> <span class="translator">Translated by AN Dellis</span>; <span class="editor">edited by SM Hamberger</span>. </span> <span class="edition">1st ed.</span> <span class="publication"> <span class="city">Oxford</span> : <span class="publisher">Pergamon Press</span>, <span class="year">1981</span> </span>. <span class="extent">206 p.</span> <span class="series">International series in natural philosophy</span>. <span class="notes">Translation of : Ciklotronnye volny v plazme</span>. <span class="standard_number"> <span class="isbn">0-08-021680-3</span> </span> </cite></code></pre> And yes, the <code>i</code>-tag is correct. In fact, it is semantically perfect, since ISO 690:1987 requires the title to be in italics, but does not imply emphasis. The microformat still isn’t usable, in that it does not include the elements of a correct biographical listing. Ideally, a microformat for properly formatted biographical listings would look something like this (example is taken directly from ISO 690:1987, p. 2):

<cite>
  <span class="primary_responsibility">LOMINADZE, DG</span>.
  <i><span class="title">Cyclotron waves in plasma</span></i>.
  <span class="subordinate_responsibility">
    <span class="translator">Translated by AN Dellis</span>;
    <span class="editor">edited by SM Hamberger</span>.
  </span>
  <span class="edition">1st ed.</span>
  <span class="publication">
    <span class="city">Oxford</span> : 
    <span class="publisher">Pergamon Press</span>,
    <span class="year">1981</span>
  </span>.
  <span class="extent">206 p.</span>
  <span class="series">International series in natural philosophy</span>.
  <span class="notes">Translation of : Ciklotronnye volny v plazme</span>.
  <span class="standard_number">
    <span class="isbn">0-08-021680-3</span>
  </span>
</cite>

And yes, the i-tag is correct. In fact, it is semantically perfect, since ISO 690:1987 requires the title to be in italics, but does not imply emphasis.

]]> By: David Dorward http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-779254 David Dorward Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:01:18 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-779254 @Shane - no it doesn't, you are probably just being confused because the content model of blockquote in Strict is (like body and form) "Contains block level elements" so it can't have inline children (sensible since it is for quoting blocks). It is block level itself so it may not appear in places where only inline elements are allowed (such as in paragraphs). @Shane – no it doesn’t, you are probably just being confused because the content model of blockquote in Strict is (like body and form) “Contains block level elements” so it can’t have inline children (sensible since it is for quoting blocks). It is block level itself so it may not appear in places where only inline elements are allowed (such as in paragraphs).

]]> By: Kevin Yank http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-779107 Kevin Yank Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:49:16 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-779107 The draft microformat works for offline sources too; just omit the link: <pre><code class="html"><p>In an article by <cite id="citation">Joe Bloggs</cite>:</p> <blockquote cite="#citation"> <p>Quote goes here…</p> </blockquote></code></pre> The draft microformat works for offline sources too; just omit the link:

<p>In an article by <cite id="citation">Joe Bloggs</cite>:</p>
<blockquote cite="#citation">
  <p>Quote goes here…</p>
</blockquote>
]]> By: the.peregrine http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-779030 the.peregrine Wed, 13 Aug 2008 04:36:37 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-779030 Nice article. As you say, Kevin, the <code>cite</code> attribute is really intended for citations of online sources. As a writer, I often cite original sources that I can't point to online. It bugs me that the Web standards don't allow for that natively, and similarly don't have an appropriate way to display captions for images (neither <code>longdesc</code>, <code>alt</code> and <code>title</code> are really intended for that). I've carped about this in W3C working groups, and I think a solution is offered in the HTML 5 specs. You asked at the end of the article how your readers do it. I coded a subsection of the site where I work, and you can see here how I styled the blockquotes with CSS to make them stand out differently as graphic elements: http://www.wvdrs.org/workable/082007js.cfm I'm pleased with the way it resizes at different resolutions, and when font size changes. I should've used <code>span</code> instead of <code>div</code> for the attribution line, though. We live and learn. Nice article. As you say, Kevin, the cite attribute is really intended for citations of online sources. As a writer, I often cite original sources that I can’t point to online. It bugs me that the Web standards don’t allow for that natively, and similarly don’t have an appropriate way to display captions for images (neither longdesc, alt and title are really intended for that). I’ve carped about this in W3C working groups, and I think a solution is offered in the HTML 5 specs.

You asked at the end of the article how your readers do it. I coded a subsection of the site where I work, and you can see here how I styled the blockquotes with CSS to make them stand out differently as graphic elements:

http://www.wvdrs.org/workable/082007js.cfm

I’m pleased with the way it resizes at different resolutions, and when font size changes. I should’ve used span instead of div for the attribution line, though.

We live and learn.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-779029 Anonymous Wed, 13 Aug 2008 04:35:23 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-779029 Nice article. As you say, Kevin, the <code>cite</code> attribute is really intended for citations of online sources. As a writer, I often cite original sources that I can't point to online. It bugs me that the Web standards don't allow for that natively, and similarly don't have an appropriate way to display captions for images (neither <code>longdesc</code>, <code>alt</code> and <code>title</code> are really intended for that). I've carped about this in W3C working groups, and I think a solution is offered in the HTML 5 specs. You asked at the end of the article how your readers do it. I coded a subsection of the site where I work, and you can see here how I styled the blockquotes with CSS to make them stand out differently as graphic elements: http://www.wvdrs.org/workable/082007js.cfm I'm pleased with the way it resizes at different resolutions, and when font size changes. I should've used <code>span</code> instead of <code>div</code> for the attribution line, though. We live and learn. Nice article. As you say, Kevin, the cite attribute is really intended for citations of online sources. As a writer, I often cite original sources that I can’t point to online. It bugs me that the Web standards don’t allow for that natively, and similarly don’t have an appropriate way to display captions for images (neither longdesc, alt and title are really intended for that). I’ve carped about this in W3C working groups, and I think a solution is offered in the HTML 5 specs.

You asked at the end of the article how your readers do it. I coded a subsection of the site where I work, and you can see here how I styled the blockquotes with CSS to make them stand out differently as graphic elements:

http://www.wvdrs.org/workable/082007js.cfm

I’m pleased with the way it resizes at different resolutions, and when font size changes. I should’ve used span instead of div for the attribution line, though.

We live and learn.

]]> By: Shane http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-778982 Shane Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:11:34 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-778982 The HTML Validator (validator.w3.org) treats the <blockquote> element as an inline element. the HTML TR, however, says that it is supposed to be a block-level element (tinyurl.com/6o7p44). Weird. Shane. The HTML Validator (validator.w3.org) treats the <blockquote> element as an inline element.

the HTML TR, however, says that it is supposed to be a block-level element (tinyurl.com/6o7p44).

Weird.

Shane.

]]> By: dansmith http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-778860 dansmith Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:42:46 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-778860 I use this: <pre><code class="html"> <blockquote> "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet." </blockquote> <cite>Joe Bloggs - Chief Placeholder</cite> </code></pre> I know it's not ideal, but as C. Ankerstjerne says, the quoted material is often not online. In my case these are usually just promotional quotes, rather than a reference to an article that exists elsewhere on the site/web. Perhaps a longdesc type application would work better? eg: <pre><code class="html"> <blockquote cite="quote-1.htm"> "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet." </blockquote> </code></pre> quote-1.htm (on same site): <pre><code class="html"> Joe Bloggs - Chief Placeholder </code></pre> It does seem a bit excessive though. What does everyone else use? I use this:


<blockquote>
  &quot;Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.&quot;
</blockquote>
<cite>Joe Bloggs - Chief Placeholder</cite>

I know it’s not ideal, but as C. Ankerstjerne says, the quoted material is often not online. In my case these are usually just promotional quotes, rather than a reference to an article that exists elsewhere on the site/web.

Perhaps a longdesc type application would work better? eg:


<blockquote cite="quote-1.htm">
  &quot;Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.&quot;
</blockquote>

quote-1.htm (on same site):


Joe Bloggs - Chief Placeholder

It does seem a bit excessive though.

What does everyone else use?

]]> By: bbolte http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-778851 bbolte Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:15:33 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-778851 interesting point, hadn't considered non-web sources on this. interesting point, hadn’t considered non-web sources on this.

]]> By: C. Ankerstjerne http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/12/blockquote-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-778847 C. Ankerstjerne Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:06:24 +0000 http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2813#comment-778847 I usually quote from material which is not available online, making the <code>cite</code>-attribute superfluous. My main issue with the <code>cite</code>-attribute (and the <code>cite</code>-tag, for that matter), is that they do not encourage the use of the international standards for bibliographic references (ISO 690 and ISO 690-2 for physical and electronic documents, respectively). I usually quote from material which is not available online, making the cite-attribute superfluous.

My main issue with the cite-attribute (and the cite-tag, for that matter), is that they do not encourage the use of the international standards for bibliographic references (ISO 690 and ISO 690-2 for physical and electronic documents, respectively).

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