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	<title>Comments on: Why The 10 Commandments Of Web Design Are Complete Baloney</title>
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	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
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		<title>By: Vic Webster</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-863568</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic Webster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-863568</guid>
		<description>Regarding 10: I usually get content, or at-least a very good idea of the content before I go ahead with the design. What is the design? It&#039;s a way to display the content. The purpose of website content is not some random babble to build your killer design around. I have to disagree with 10. Content comes first. The designs is just different ways to dress it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding 10: I usually get content, or at-least a very good idea of the content before I go ahead with the design. What is the design? It&#8217;s a way to display the content. The purpose of website content is not some random babble to build your killer design around. I have to disagree with 10. Content comes first. The designs is just different ways to dress it up.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: No Flash</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-842348</link>
		<dc:creator>No Flash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-842348</guid>
		<description>I clicked on the link to the jkrowling site.  All there was was a big Flash block.  No &quot;click here for HTML&quot; that I always look for.  There is nothing on that page but a big semi-transparent block (yesh, NoScript).  
When I deal with Flash/noFlash, I check: No Javascript but Flash?  Flash but no Javascript?  Neither?  Half-blocked Javascript?  Old Flash player? Crappy browser?  NoScript?  Flash is a problem and thus should either be an extra, or do the whole site in Flash and simply ignore those without Flash at all (oilily.nl I&#039;m looking at you).  Otherwise, you&#039;d better be damned careful and check for ALL likely possibilities.  jkrowling (the site) fails at NoScript.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I clicked on the link to the jkrowling site.  All there was was a big Flash block.  No &#8220;click here for HTML&#8221; that I always look for.  There is nothing on that page but a big semi-transparent block (yesh, NoScript).<br />
When I deal with Flash/noFlash, I check: No Javascript but Flash?  Flash but no Javascript?  Neither?  Half-blocked Javascript?  Old Flash player? Crappy browser?  NoScript?  Flash is a problem and thus should either be an extra, or do the whole site in Flash and simply ignore those without Flash at all (oilily.nl I&#8217;m looking at you).  Otherwise, you&#8217;d better be damned careful and check for ALL likely possibilities.  jkrowling (the site) fails at NoScript.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MCSE CBT</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-805026</link>
		<dc:creator>MCSE CBT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-805026</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with this article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with this article.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Quote Catcher</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-767746</link>
		<dc:creator>Quote Catcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-767746</guid>
		<description>I think it all depends on the ultimate goal of the site. If the client is looking to sell product or wants to ensure good organic search engine rankings than content needs to be king. Without good unique content it doesn&#039;t matter how great we make the site look, it still won&#039;t be picked up by Google.
Also, in terms of Flash, Adobe has been rumbling about improving the ability to optimize Flash content but it has yet to be tested or proven. If you use too much flash than once again it effects your search engine rankings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it all depends on the ultimate goal of the site. If the client is looking to sell product or wants to ensure good organic search engine rankings than content needs to be king. Without good unique content it doesn&#8217;t matter how great we make the site look, it still won&#8217;t be picked up by Google.<br />
Also, in terms of Flash, Adobe has been rumbling about improving the ability to optimize Flash content but it has yet to be tested or proven. If you use too much flash than once again it effects your search engine rankings.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-760374</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-760374</guid>
		<description>I agree with Stevie D.  Well said.  

As for the typography commandment, I think BW is right.  I don&#039;t think they&#039;re saying &quot;use more pull quotes and drop shadows.&quot;  I take that as meaning: use type sizes, bold, etc. in a coherent hierarchy of information that can be quickly understood by the visitor; and make it readable!  So many web sites use tiny type that is fatiguing to eyes over the age of 40, or color combinations of type and background that are headache-inducing.  When I was trained as a graphic designer, it was all print, but some of the principles still hold: before you introduce a new font, style or size, you should have a reason that helps convey the information.  That&#039;s part of what &quot;worshipping&quot; typography means.  Elsewhere on Sitepoint in one of the articles featured in your latest newsletter, one of your bloggers makes a similar point.

As for Commandment 10 -- you&#039;re the *editor* of Sitepoint.com and don&#039;t understand why content is king?  I can&#039;t design a good site for someone if I don&#039;t have at least the basic content they&#039;re starting with.  Yes, content can always be added to, but we have to start with a basic framework. The visual part has to work with the content and help convey the &quot;personality&quot; of the site.  Is the tone friendly, formal, businesslike, quirky?  Is the audience male, female, or both?  How are we going to organize the site?  I&#039;ve been designing web sites for 9 years, but I&#039;m new to Sitepoint, and have found the newsletters really helpful.  Therefore, I&#039;m shocked at your attitude given your position within the organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Stevie D.  Well said.  </p>
<p>As for the typography commandment, I think BW is right.  I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re saying &#8220;use more pull quotes and drop shadows.&#8221;  I take that as meaning: use type sizes, bold, etc. in a coherent hierarchy of information that can be quickly understood by the visitor; and make it readable!  So many web sites use tiny type that is fatiguing to eyes over the age of 40, or color combinations of type and background that are headache-inducing.  When I was trained as a graphic designer, it was all print, but some of the principles still hold: before you introduce a new font, style or size, you should have a reason that helps convey the information.  That&#8217;s part of what &#8220;worshipping&#8221; typography means.  Elsewhere on Sitepoint in one of the articles featured in your latest newsletter, one of your bloggers makes a similar point.</p>
<p>As for Commandment 10 &#8212; you&#8217;re the *editor* of Sitepoint.com and don&#8217;t understand why content is king?  I can&#8217;t design a good site for someone if I don&#8217;t have at least the basic content they&#8217;re starting with.  Yes, content can always be added to, but we have to start with a basic framework. The visual part has to work with the content and help convey the &#8220;personality&#8221; of the site.  Is the tone friendly, formal, businesslike, quirky?  Is the audience male, female, or both?  How are we going to organize the site?  I&#8217;ve been designing web sites for 9 years, but I&#8217;m new to Sitepoint, and have found the newsletters really helpful.  Therefore, I&#8217;m shocked at your attitude given your position within the organization.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jenny McDermott</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-758023</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny McDermott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-758023</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read the BW article, but your summary of it confirms what I&#039;ve noticed for some time: the business press, with few exceptions (e.g., Wired) doesn&#039;t understand the Web. I&#039;m a bit disappointed that Dan Cedarholm would lend his name to this endeavor; his book on &quot;Bulletproof Web Design&quot; is one of the most useful I&#039;ve ever encountered. But he needs money and name recognition as much as anyone else, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read the BW article, but your summary of it confirms what I&#8217;ve noticed for some time: the business press, with few exceptions (e.g., Wired) doesn&#8217;t understand the Web. I&#8217;m a bit disappointed that Dan Cedarholm would lend his name to this endeavor; his book on &#8220;Bulletproof Web Design&#8221; is one of the most useful I&#8217;ve ever encountered. But he needs money and name recognition as much as anyone else, I suppose.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: vishrb</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-757627</link>
		<dc:creator>vishrb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-757627</guid>
		<description>Sorry my previous post made a mockery of quotes. My comments are the last paragraph in response to the comments in the 2nd to last paragraph. Which were in response to the first 2 lines. lol...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry my previous post made a mockery of quotes. My comments are the last paragraph in response to the comments in the 2nd to last paragraph. Which were in response to the first 2 lines. lol&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: vishrb</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-757625</link>
		<dc:creator>vishrb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-757625</guid>
		<description>That’s not an excuse. I’ve started making this a demand/requirement. If you &lt;blockquote&gt;wish to create a professional design, depending on what you’re building, you will need this early on.

To be clear: If you are building a news/information website/blog, a sitemap is critical before you begin. If you are building a brochure-type website, the content AND the sitemap are critical before you begin (put it this way - try designing a professional print brochure without content -&gt; it’s simply not possible).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Is it content that is critical or a complete understanding of the content to be expected? It is not reasonable to ask a client to hand over all text and images that will be on the site at the beginning of the process. It is reasonable confirm the type of content and maybe even some excerpts or mockups of content. Am I wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s not an excuse. I’ve started making this a demand/requirement. If you<br />
<blockquote>wish to create a professional design, depending on what you’re building, you will need this early on.</blockquote></p>
<p>To be clear: If you are building a news/information website/blog, a sitemap is critical before you begin. If you are building a brochure-type website, the content AND the sitemap are critical before you begin (put it this way &#8211; try designing a professional print brochure without content -&gt; it’s simply not possible).</p>
<p>Is it content that is critical or a complete understanding of the content to be expected? It is not reasonable to ask a client to hand over all text and images that will be on the site at the beginning of the process. It is reasonable confirm the type of content and maybe even some excerpts or mockups of content. Am I wrong?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-757244</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-757244</guid>
		<description>And finally, if the author and his team of expert designers truly believe that “content is king”, then doesn’t this undermine the importance of design in the first place? 

No. Design supports the communication of the message. It doesn&#039;t take center stage. This is one of the basics of design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And finally, if the author and his team of expert designers truly believe that “content is king”, then doesn’t this undermine the importance of design in the first place? </p>
<p>No. Design supports the communication of the message. It doesn&#8217;t take center stage. This is one of the basics of design.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: fatpat</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/07/01/why-the-10-commandments-of-web-design-is-complete-baloney/comment-page-1/#comment-757087</link>
		<dc:creator>fatpat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2584#comment-757087</guid>
		<description>Agree on 3 of these points for entirely different reasons. If you’re designing a web site for hard core business users or those used to creating complex macros using MS Excel flash/flex and clutter is good.

•  Thou shalt not abuse Flash. 
I don’t particularly care too much for the design ability of using Flash. But I do a lot of data presentation work using flex. The ability to show different sets of data and being able to view them in different ways – several types of graphical and tabular ways, showing hiding columns, highlighting rows is very useful from a business user’s perspective. Business users are already used to seeing complex tables.
It is jolly hard to do this using javascript. Also in flex everything happens instantly. No server trips to fetch data. 

•  Thou shalt not hide content. 
Ad revenue aside, a javascript confirm popup is almost mandatory when confirming deals worth millions of dollars. Sometimes even if they confirm I still take them to a sort of “final final” confirm page after which nothing can be changed.

•  Thou shalt not clutter.
Again from a business users perspective we need to give them a choice on what they see on a dashboard. Some type of admin page where they check uncheck what they want to see immediately.
As long as the clutter is classified and labeled properly then clutter is fine. Its like some of us work best on a cluttered table, others prefer their desks to be hospital clean. Give users a choice, that’s all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree on 3 of these points for entirely different reasons. If you’re designing a web site for hard core business users or those used to creating complex macros using MS Excel flash/flex and clutter is good.</p>
<p>•  Thou shalt not abuse Flash.<br />
I don’t particularly care too much for the design ability of using Flash. But I do a lot of data presentation work using flex. The ability to show different sets of data and being able to view them in different ways – several types of graphical and tabular ways, showing hiding columns, highlighting rows is very useful from a business user’s perspective. Business users are already used to seeing complex tables.<br />
It is jolly hard to do this using javascript. Also in flex everything happens instantly. No server trips to fetch data. </p>
<p>•  Thou shalt not hide content.<br />
Ad revenue aside, a javascript confirm popup is almost mandatory when confirming deals worth millions of dollars. Sometimes even if they confirm I still take them to a sort of “final final” confirm page after which nothing can be changed.</p>
<p>•  Thou shalt not clutter.<br />
Again from a business users perspective we need to give them a choice on what they see on a dashboard. Some type of admin page where they check uncheck what they want to see immediately.<br />
As long as the clutter is classified and labeled properly then clutter is fine. Its like some of us work best on a cluttered table, others prefer their desks to be hospital clean. Give users a choice, that’s all.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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