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	<title>Comments on: Did Rails Sink Twitter?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 04:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ChewyBac</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-774321</link>
		<dc:creator>ChewyBac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-774321</guid>
		<description>Rails is for people incapable of simply and correctly modeling OBJECTS. If you use rails you need to come to terms with the fact that you're a mediocre(or worse) programmer, working most likely on a macintosh, an embarrassment to yourself and the rest of the programming world, desperate to be part of something and just a all around imbecile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rails is for people incapable of simply and correctly modeling OBJECTS. If you use rails you need to come to terms with the fact that you&#8217;re a mediocre(or worse) programmer, working most likely on a macintosh, an embarrassment to yourself and the rest of the programming world, desperate to be part of something and just a all around imbecile.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dasil003</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-751697</link>
		<dc:creator>dasil003</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-751697</guid>
		<description>This post is almost worse than the complete idiots posting about why Rails doesn't scale because Ruby is slow.  This is a terrible insult to the Twitter developers to suggest that they would never have thought of something so basic.

It's also an insult to Rails to imply that Rails favors one architecture over the other.   Database normalization itself is what favors the former.  It's the more efficient, robust and flexible representation of the data.  Of course that's a theoretical perspective, as soon as you have to scale then you have far more important considerations.

The worst part is this kind of article leaves the door open for the real idiots to come out in droves.  Just look at phpimpact, so sure that Ruby is a technology more appropriate for "content management systems" or that there aren't any Ruby jobs.  I hate to break it to you phpimpact, but based on your level of discourse, I'd say your friend's problem getting a programming job has nothing to do with Ruby.

Please, for the love of god, would everyone just go read someone who knows what they're talking about, study it, internalize it, then realize that off-the-cuff punditry actually makes the blogosphere stupider than listening to someone who actually has a clue:

http://www.hueniverse.com/hueniverse/2008/03/on-scaling-a-mi.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is almost worse than the complete idiots posting about why Rails doesn&#8217;t scale because Ruby is slow.  This is a terrible insult to the Twitter developers to suggest that they would never have thought of something so basic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also an insult to Rails to imply that Rails favors one architecture over the other.   Database normalization itself is what favors the former.  It&#8217;s the more efficient, robust and flexible representation of the data.  Of course that&#8217;s a theoretical perspective, as soon as you have to scale then you have far more important considerations.</p>
<p>The worst part is this kind of article leaves the door open for the real idiots to come out in droves.  Just look at phpimpact, so sure that Ruby is a technology more appropriate for &#8220;content management systems&#8221; or that there aren&#8217;t any Ruby jobs.  I hate to break it to you phpimpact, but based on your level of discourse, I&#8217;d say your friend&#8217;s problem getting a programming job has nothing to do with Ruby.</p>
<p>Please, for the love of god, would everyone just go read someone who knows what they&#8217;re talking about, study it, internalize it, then realize that off-the-cuff punditry actually makes the blogosphere stupider than listening to someone who actually has a clue:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hueniverse.com/hueniverse/2008/03/on-scaling-a-mi.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.hueniverse.com/hueniverse/2008/03/on-scaling-a-mi.html</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymously</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-743428</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymously</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-743428</guid>
		<description>A lot of Rails developers are switching to Spring and Zend Framework. Twitter gave a very bad reputation to Rails, and also, Ruby doesn't offer any carrier opportunities to young developers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of Rails developers are switching to Spring and Zend Framework. Twitter gave a very bad reputation to Rails, and also, Ruby doesn&#8217;t offer any carrier opportunities to young developers.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-742999</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-742999</guid>
		<description>Even Tim Bray which is a strong advocate for Rails and displays quite a bit of disgust at PHP and strongly recommends PHP developers to move to Rails, has widely been quoted as saying that PHP scales better:
http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/11/10/Comparing-Frameworks

The qualities that PHP apps lack, can be fixed with best development practices. However, the weaknesses other languages have, tend to be more intrinsic to the language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even Tim Bray which is a strong advocate for Rails and displays quite a bit of disgust at PHP and strongly recommends PHP developers to move to Rails, has widely been quoted as saying that PHP scales better:<br />
<a href="http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/11/10/Comparing-Frameworks" rel="nofollow">http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/11/10/Comparing-Frameworks</a></p>
<p>The qualities that PHP apps lack, can be fixed with best development practices. However, the weaknesses other languages have, tend to be more intrinsic to the language.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Simon Willison</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-742701</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Willison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-742701</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; What’s wrong with:

SELECT * FROM tweets INNER JOIN following ON tweets.posterID = following.buddyID WHERE following.userid = 'xxxx'&lt;/blockquote&gt;It doesn't scale. Anyone who has built a high scale application will tell you that joins on huge tables absolutely murder performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> What’s wrong with:</p>
<p>SELECT * FROM tweets INNER JOIN following ON tweets.posterID = following.buddyID WHERE following.userid = &#8216;xxxx&#8217;</p></blockquote>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t scale. Anyone who has built a high scale application will tell you that joins on huge tables absolutely murder performance.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jonas B.</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-742687</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-742687</guid>
		<description>Sorry for disturbing your archiecture modelling high, but an IRC server fits this description pretty well. They handle (tens of?) thousands of channels/users and cluster pretty well ("networks"). Don't let the fact that the HTML is missing from the messages confuse you.

I doubt it was time to market that let to the architecture you describe above, since there is plenty of robust scalable messaging code already out there which would be a much easier start than coding yet another. I think it's more to do with the developers being oop wank^H^H^H^Hbelievers desperately pushing square pegs through round holes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for disturbing your archiecture modelling high, but an IRC server fits this description pretty well. They handle (tens of?) thousands of channels/users and cluster pretty well (&#8221;networks&#8221;). Don&#8217;t let the fact that the HTML is missing from the messages confuse you.</p>
<p>I doubt it was time to market that let to the architecture you describe above, since there is plenty of robust scalable messaging code already out there which would be a much easier start than coding yet another. I think it&#8217;s more to do with the developers being oop wank^H^H^H^Hbelievers desperately pushing square pegs through round holes.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zamous</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-742551</link>
		<dc:creator>Zamous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-742551</guid>
		<description>I think you are complete idiot to write this entire article on pure speculation of how you think twitter was developed!  Twitter has some other profound performance factors, not including the fact that they were essentially running off only one database.  Why don't you take the time to learn some real issue of Rails--they are quite a few.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are complete idiot to write this entire article on pure speculation of how you think twitter was developed!  Twitter has some other profound performance factors, not including the fact that they were essentially running off only one database.  Why don&#8217;t you take the time to learn some real issue of Rails&#8211;they are quite a few.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-742419</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-742419</guid>
		<description>"That’s absurd. I’m a PHP, Python and Ruby programmer and for all our front-end development we use PHP. Honestly, do you really think we are going to believe that people use PHP because it’s an old habit? Please."

I am not the anon user before, but if you use PHP then it is your own fault.

PHP can do nothing that either python or ruby cant. People only are lazy and opted to use php, which is thus the only "strength" php has - the www.

And php is such an ugly language that over the next few years, either python or ruby - or both - will leave PHP behind. If php does not change a great many things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That’s absurd. I’m a PHP, Python and Ruby programmer and for all our front-end development we use PHP. Honestly, do you really think we are going to believe that people use PHP because it’s an old habit? Please.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not the anon user before, but if you use PHP then it is your own fault.</p>
<p>PHP can do nothing that either python or ruby cant. People only are lazy and opted to use php, which is thus the only &#8220;strength&#8221; php has - the <a href="http://www" rel="nofollow">http://www</a>.</p>
<p>And php is such an ugly language that over the next few years, either python or ruby - or both - will leave PHP behind. If php does not change a great many things.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris S</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-742105</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-742105</guid>
		<description>Good comments.  The problem isn't with the framework (nor has Twitter ever said that), it's with their database architecture (they *have* said that).  The nice thing about Rails is that it lets you take care of all your database stuff fairly easily.  The bad thing about Rails is that it makes it easier to write bad database architectures.  A friend of mine recently did a series of blog posts about this, you all should check it out: www.drewblas.com

Nice article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comments.  The problem isn&#8217;t with the framework (nor has Twitter ever said that), it&#8217;s with their database architecture (they *have* said that).  The nice thing about Rails is that it lets you take care of all your database stuff fairly easily.  The bad thing about Rails is that it makes it easier to write bad database architectures.  A friend of mine recently did a series of blog posts about this, you all should check it out: <a href="http://www.drewblas.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.drewblas.com</a></p>
<p>Nice article.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: phpimpact</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/06/06/did-rails-sink-twitter/#comment-741487</link>
		<dc:creator>phpimpact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2532#comment-741487</guid>
		<description>@Anonymous

&#62; The reason there are more job vacancies for PHP developers is because a majority (in 
&#62; Australia at least) of design houses have been working in it for years.

That's absurd. I'm a PHP, Python and Ruby programmer and for all our front-end development we use PHP. Honestly, do you really think we are going to believe that people use PHP because it's an old habit? Please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anonymous</p>
<p>&gt; The reason there are more job vacancies for PHP developers is because a majority (in<br />
&gt; Australia at least) of design houses have been working in it for years.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s absurd. I&#8217;m a PHP, Python and Ruby programmer and for all our front-end development we use PHP. Honestly, do you really think we are going to believe that people use PHP because it&#8217;s an old habit? Please.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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