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	<title>Comments on: Enter The Matrix &#8212; Browse The Complete SitePoint Library</title>
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	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-718376</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 09:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-718376</guid>
		<description>im gonna start a flame war with this, but...
Isn't this one of those things where a table is perfectly acceptable.

although it does look very nice, and the only place your gonna see something done that well is on a webdesign site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>im gonna start a flame war with this, but&#8230;<br />
Isn&#8217;t this one of those things where a table is perfectly acceptable.</p>
<p>although it does look very nice, and the only place your gonna see something done that well is on a webdesign site.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: AlexW</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-718080</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 00:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-718080</guid>
		<description>@ cranial-bore: Yep, on a pure client-bang-for-buck measurement gauge, you probably wouldn't pick this solution. For us there are probably two motivators.

Firstly, if we can't justify doing it -- as a web publisher/educator/direction setter --  then probably no-one could justify it.

Secondly, your first ever CSS layout was probably a temporary backward step in terms of bang-for-client-buck over a traditional table layout. 

But in the same way that you pay to attend courses and conferences without being able to directly attribute income to them (usually anyway), experimental stuff like this feeds back into how you approach a similar problem next time, and possibly how you approach more mundane daily problems. I learned really useful things about background-position percentages playing around with that &lt;a href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/01/18/in-the-lab-doing-strange-things-to-css-backgrounds/" rel="nofollow"&gt;ostensibly useless little limousine toy&lt;/a&gt;.

Of course, if you need to deliver a site yesterday afternoon, it's maybe not a time to crack out the lab coat, but by the same token it is hard to expand your skill-set if you use the same solutions every time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ cranial-bore: Yep, on a pure client-bang-for-buck measurement gauge, you probably wouldn&#8217;t pick this solution. For us there are probably two motivators.</p>
<p>Firstly, if we can&#8217;t justify doing it &#8212; as a web publisher/educator/direction setter &#8212;  then probably no-one could justify it.</p>
<p>Secondly, your first ever CSS layout was probably a temporary backward step in terms of bang-for-client-buck over a traditional table layout. </p>
<p>But in the same way that you pay to attend courses and conferences without being able to directly attribute income to them (usually anyway), experimental stuff like this feeds back into how you approach a similar problem next time, and possibly how you approach more mundane daily problems. I learned really useful things about background-position percentages playing around with that <a href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/01/18/in-the-lab-doing-strange-things-to-css-backgrounds/" rel="nofollow">ostensibly useless little limousine toy</a>.</p>
<p>Of course, if you need to deliver a site yesterday afternoon, it&#8217;s maybe not a time to crack out the lab coat, but by the same token it is hard to expand your skill-set if you use the same solutions every time.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wolf_22</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-717829</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolf_22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-717829</guid>
		<description>Now that's what I call content!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that&#8217;s what I call content!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cranial-bore</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-717746</link>
		<dc:creator>cranial-bore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-717746</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For the less ambitious, more pragmatic developer, I would have simply recommended providing a text alternative to the matrix, which could have been done with an image, SVG, or Flash.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yep, that is exactly what I was thinking when writing my first comment. If this were a client project the choice may have been either quoting for ~1 hour to do an image + text alternative or 1 day (or more) to come up with the current solution. The cost difference could be substantial, and hard to justify.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>For the less ambitious, more pragmatic developer, I would have simply recommended providing a text alternative to the matrix, which could have been done with an image, SVG, or Flash.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yep, that is exactly what I was thinking when writing my first comment. If this were a client project the choice may have been either quoting for ~1 hour to do an image + text alternative or 1 day (or more) to come up with the current solution. The cost difference could be substantial, and hard to justify.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: junjun</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-717745</link>
		<dc:creator>junjun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-717745</guid>
		<description>Very nice indeed. A great example of what you can do with CSS while still use the right semantic markup for the information displayed. As for the Nay-sayers: When was pushing the envelope not a good thing? Did you have the same attitude back when we started talking about web standards, image replacement techniques, microformats etc? Imagine being stuck in the pre-2000 web... yikes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice indeed. A great example of what you can do with CSS while still use the right semantic markup for the information displayed. As for the Nay-sayers: When was pushing the envelope not a good thing? Did you have the same attitude back when we started talking about web standards, image replacement techniques, microformats etc? Imagine being stuck in the pre-2000 web&#8230; yikes.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kevin Yank</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-717711</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Yank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 12:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-717711</guid>
		<description>Wow! Very nicely done - and sneakily too! This was a semi-secret project internally (or maybe I've just been going to the wrong meetings).

As for the concern over the difficulty of implementing something like this, Cake may disagree with me on this, but I'd say what he's achieved goes well beyond the level of semantic expressiveness that HTML was designed to provide. For the less ambitious, more pragmatic developer, I would have simply recommended providing a text alternative to the matrix, which could have been done with an image, SVG, or Flash.

Of course, pushing the boundaries of web technology is what we're about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Very nicely done - and sneakily too! This was a semi-secret project internally (or maybe I&#8217;ve just been going to the wrong meetings).</p>
<p>As for the concern over the difficulty of implementing something like this, Cake may disagree with me on this, but I&#8217;d say what he&#8217;s achieved goes well beyond the level of semantic expressiveness that HTML was designed to provide. For the less ambitious, more pragmatic developer, I would have simply recommended providing a text alternative to the matrix, which could have been done with an image, SVG, or Flash.</p>
<p>Of course, pushing the boundaries of web technology is what we&#8217;re about.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Octal</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-717611</link>
		<dc:creator>Octal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 09:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-717611</guid>
		<description>cranial-bore has a good point, I'd be interested in knowing what the challenges were with that and why the choice of "hairy css" was taken.

On a positive note it is a very useful addition to the site!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cranial-bore has a good point, I&#8217;d be interested in knowing what the challenges were with that and why the choice of &#8220;hairy css&#8221; was taken.</p>
<p>On a positive note it is a very useful addition to the site!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Paul Annesley</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-717536</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Annesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 07:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-717536</guid>
		<description>Very nice indeed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice indeed!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cranial-bore</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/05/07/enter-the-matrix-browse-the-complete-sitepoint-library/#comment-717508</link>
		<dc:creator>cranial-bore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 07:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2469#comment-717508</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The page itself is a technological wonder, making use of some hairy CSS in order to display information in a useful manner while retaining some form of semantic sense.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is somewhat concerning, not because Brothercake has done a bad job, but because it means doing simple stuff on the web can be really complex. The matrix is good, certainly useful, but it doesn't look like a technological wonder, or something that should require ultra-advanced CSS. If the degree of difficulty to produce this slightly rich visual representation while remaining semantic is so high then doing things the right way is going to be well out of reach for most web publishers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The page itself is a technological wonder, making use of some hairy CSS in order to display information in a useful manner while retaining some form of semantic sense.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is somewhat concerning, not because Brothercake has done a bad job, but because it means doing simple stuff on the web can be really complex. The matrix is good, certainly useful, but it doesn&#8217;t look like a technological wonder, or something that should require ultra-advanced CSS. If the degree of difficulty to produce this slightly rich visual representation while remaining semantic is so high then doing things the right way is going to be well out of reach for most web publishers.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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