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	<title>Comments on: You can stick your em-dash up your dot dot dot</title>
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	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/</link>
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		<title>By: Danno</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-783189</link>
		<dc:creator>Danno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-783189</guid>
		<description>While I agree that it&#039;s important to remember that language is a living organism, it is likewise important to not make that stance an excuse for plain old laziness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that it&#8217;s important to remember that language is a living organism, it is likewise important to not make that stance an excuse for plain old laziness.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Priester</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-737065</link>
		<dc:creator>Priester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-737065</guid>
		<description>I agree with you. I&#039;m in love with everything about typography&#8212;I&#039;m the sort of person who was genuinely excited about the new &lt;i&gt;Helvetica &lt;/i&gt;documentary&#8212;but the examples you mention are the domain of older manager types who read &quot;The Mac is Not a Typewriter&quot; some time in the 80s. They make me think of the book The Peter Principal&#8212;it describes the natural tendency to focus on tertiary, easy-to-control issues when your level of incompetence prevents you from adding real value. I&#039;ve seen these warriors add en-dashes to the last names of people who didn&#039;t even know they were entitled to them! Hell, Emigre magazine is as old as desktop publishing but these folks can still get excited about grid systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you. I&#8217;m in love with everything about typography&mdash;I&#8217;m the sort of person who was genuinely excited about the new <i>Helvetica </i>documentary&mdash;but the examples you mention are the domain of older manager types who read &#8220;The Mac is Not a Typewriter&#8221; some time in the 80s. They make me think of the book The Peter Principal&mdash;it describes the natural tendency to focus on tertiary, easy-to-control issues when your level of incompetence prevents you from adding real value. I&#8217;ve seen these warriors add en-dashes to the last names of people who didn&#8217;t even know they were entitled to them! Hell, Emigre magazine is as old as desktop publishing but these folks can still get excited about grid systems.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sldesigns</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-729615</link>
		<dc:creator>sldesigns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 20:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-729615</guid>
		<description>&quot;the man was identified at being6&#039;3&quot;&quot;

For me, that sentence is reason enough.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The irony is that quotes in one of these replies uses the proper tags&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and I do mean proper. We&#039;ve been seeing them since we could read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the man was identified at being6&#8242;3&#8243;&#8221;</p>
<p>For me, that sentence is reason enough.</p>
<blockquote><p>The irony is that quotes in one of these replies uses the proper tags</p></blockquote>
<p>and I do mean proper. We&#8217;ve been seeing them since we could read.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PhilTilson</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-728844</link>
		<dc:creator>PhilTilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 09:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-728844</guid>
		<description>The most frequent question seems to be &quot;Who cares?&quot; and the answer is simple.  There are two kinds of reader: those who don&#039;t bother about this kind of thing and those that do.  The former won&#039;t care whether you split infinitives, use em-dashes or curly quotes or write &quot;The choice is your&#039;s&quot; when you mean &quot;The choice is yours&quot;.  Nor will they notice if everything you write is perfect.

However, the latter will!  So why alienate half your potential audience by failing to adhere to the conventions?  Do it wrong and half your audience will be put off to a greater or lesser extent; do it right and nobody will be put off!  Simple, really.

And as for the &quot;Language is developing all the time&quot; argument, this is sadly true.  So every day I hear people say &quot;He shouldn&#039;t of done it&quot; or, even worse, &quot;I done it right&quot;.  Maybe this doesn&#039;t matter to you, but trust me, it really matters to a lot of people, and I don&#039;t want them to think that I&#039;m too ignorant or too lazy to get it right.

So, in short, I disagree with almost everything that you wrote, James!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most frequent question seems to be &#8220;Who cares?&#8221; and the answer is simple.  There are two kinds of reader: those who don&#8217;t bother about this kind of thing and those that do.  The former won&#8217;t care whether you split infinitives, use em-dashes or curly quotes or write &#8220;The choice is your&#8217;s&#8221; when you mean &#8220;The choice is yours&#8221;.  Nor will they notice if everything you write is perfect.</p>
<p>However, the latter will!  So why alienate half your potential audience by failing to adhere to the conventions?  Do it wrong and half your audience will be put off to a greater or lesser extent; do it right and nobody will be put off!  Simple, really.</p>
<p>And as for the &#8220;Language is developing all the time&#8221; argument, this is sadly true.  So every day I hear people say &#8220;He shouldn&#8217;t of done it&#8221; or, even worse, &#8220;I done it right&#8221;.  Maybe this doesn&#8217;t matter to you, but trust me, it really matters to a lot of people, and I don&#8217;t want them to think that I&#8217;m too ignorant or too lazy to get it right.</p>
<p>So, in short, I disagree with almost everything that you wrote, James!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: hutchsky</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-728825</link>
		<dc:creator>hutchsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 08:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-728825</guid>
		<description>Hore-A Wii kan git rid uv ijookashun nouw!! etts aleetisst nazi kraap</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hore-A Wii kan git rid uv ijookashun nouw!! etts aleetisst nazi kraap</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PhillipB</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-722184</link>
		<dc:creator>PhillipB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 14:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-722184</guid>
		<description>Of course, once IE catches up with FF and co, then the quotation tag will be usable and all the quote marks will be perfect!

Meanwhile, there are hacks that will do the job, such as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alistapart.com/articles/qtag&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Long Live the Q Tag&lt;/a&gt;.

And, yes, I do use &amp;hellip, &amp;mdash, etc, because I read Lynne Truss&#039; book - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lynnetruss.com/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=8&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Eats Shoots and Leaves&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, once IE catches up with FF and co, then the quotation tag will be usable and all the quote marks will be perfect!</p>
<p>Meanwhile, there are hacks that will do the job, such as <a href="http://www.alistapart.com/articles/qtag" rel="nofollow">Long Live the Q Tag</a>.</p>
<p>And, yes, I do use &amp;hellip, &amp;mdash, etc, because I read Lynne Truss&#8217; book &#8211; <a href="http://www.lynnetruss.com/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=8" rel="nofollow">Eats Shoots and Leaves</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: AlexW</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-718861</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 00:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-718861</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Why would you turn down the chance to make your content more sophisticated?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You make it sound like sophistication is an ends in itself, and something to always aspire to. Surely if we happen to build something that is sophisticated, it&#039;s only a byproduct of what we are trying to achieve?   

Likewise, surely if there&#039;s a way of achieving identical outcomes with a simpler solution, we&#039;d take that option?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why would you turn down the chance to make your content more sophisticated?</p></blockquote>
<p>You make it sound like sophistication is an ends in itself, and something to always aspire to. Surely if we happen to build something that is sophisticated, it&#8217;s only a byproduct of what we are trying to achieve?   </p>
<p>Likewise, surely if there&#8217;s a way of achieving identical outcomes with a simpler solution, we&#8217;d take that option?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: CascadingIdiot</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-718493</link>
		<dc:creator>CascadingIdiot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-718493</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Brothercake:&lt;/em&gt;
Markup compliance and proper typography come from different realms, and each has it&#039;s own authoritative source. In print, the &lt;strong&gt;authoritative source&lt;/strong&gt; of proper typography is Robert Bringhurst&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Elements of Typographic Style.&lt;/em&gt;

Deserves? Why the moral component? You can&#039;t expect to ask a bunch of web developers about typography and get an adequate answer. While their job is important, typography is another man&#039;s specialty. It&#039;s about quality. One day we&#039;ll get all the CSS controls we need for it, but we have enough now, like ellipses, to do it right.  Machine interoperability? Once again, irrelevant to the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Brothercake:</em><br />
Markup compliance and proper typography come from different realms, and each has it&#8217;s own authoritative source. In print, the <strong>authoritative source</strong> of proper typography is Robert Bringhurst&#8217;s <em>Elements of Typographic Style.</em></p>
<p>Deserves? Why the moral component? You can&#8217;t expect to ask a bunch of web developers about typography and get an adequate answer. While their job is important, typography is another man&#8217;s specialty. It&#8217;s about quality. One day we&#8217;ll get all the CSS controls we need for it, but we have enough now, like ellipses, to do it right.  Machine interoperability? Once again, irrelevant to the discussion.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: CascadingIdiot</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-718484</link>
		<dc:creator>CascadingIdiot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 12:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-718484</guid>
		<description>You really just sound like a kid whining. Seriously. Why would you turn down the chance to make your content more sophisticated? Maybe it&#039;s the influence of txtng and rofling all over the place. Sure, typography on the web in general, is atrocious. Do you ever use &#039;line-height&#039; in CSS? That&#039;s called &#039;leading&#039; in the real world. It&#039;s indispensable for readability of content, and it&#039;s roots are the same as those you&#039;ve so eloquently poo-poo&#039;d.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really just sound like a kid whining. Seriously. Why would you turn down the chance to make your content more sophisticated? Maybe it&#8217;s the influence of txtng and rofling all over the place. Sure, typography on the web in general, is atrocious. Do you ever use &#8216;line-height&#8217; in CSS? That&#8217;s called &#8216;leading&#8217; in the real world. It&#8217;s indispensable for readability of content, and it&#8217;s roots are the same as those you&#8217;ve so eloquently poo-poo&#8217;d.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Paintworkz Web Design</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/04/30/you-can-stick-your-em-dash-up-your-dot-dot-dot/comment-page-1/#comment-715573</link>
		<dc:creator>Paintworkz Web Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 14:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=2454#comment-715573</guid>
		<description>It all depends on whom you are targeting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It all depends on whom you are targeting.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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