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	<title>Comments on: Do less</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
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		<title>By: pixelsoul</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-413574</link>
		<dc:creator>pixelsoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-413574</guid>
		<description>Meeh im still drawn to cakephp :D But it&#039;s not perfect either.. but at least the php framework choice is not so hard as a linux distro it&#039;s kinda silly how many distro&#039;s there are now :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meeh im still drawn to cakephp :D But it&#8217;s not perfect either.. but at least the php framework choice is not so hard as a linux distro it&#8217;s kinda silly how many distro&#8217;s there are now :D</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ronnie</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-413332</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-413332</guid>
		<description>@m0n5t3r

You should notice that 99% of current documentation is still valid for 0.6.2.
If you don&#039;t like Propel you can use Doctrine.
With regard to being enterprise ready check out what Yahoo is doing with Symfony.
And finally if you don&#039;t like PHP why on earth do you use it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@m0n5t3r</p>
<p>You should notice that 99% of current documentation is still valid for 0.6.2.<br />
If you don&#8217;t like Propel you can use Doctrine.<br />
With regard to being enterprise ready check out what Yahoo is doing with Symfony.<br />
And finally if you don&#8217;t like PHP why on earth do you use it?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sam "DaMule" Hennessy</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-410653</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam "DaMule" Hennessy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-410653</guid>
		<description>There will always be at the very lest two PHP frameworks, a &quot;Glue&quot; framework like Zend and a &quot;Full Stack&quot; framework like PRADO.

But knowing PHP developers there will always be lots of frameworks, just look at the world of PHP template engines to find that out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There will always be at the very lest two PHP frameworks, a &#8220;Glue&#8221; framework like Zend and a &#8220;Full Stack&#8221; framework like PRADO.</p>
<p>But knowing PHP developers there will always be lots of frameworks, just look at the world of PHP template engines to find that out.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AlexVN</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-410586</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexVN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-410586</guid>
		<description>&gt; There will never be a single framework which is all things to all men.

Yes, but there is always a framework which 80% of developers use. Who ever use a framework, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; There will never be a single framework which is all things to all men.</p>
<p>Yes, but there is always a framework which 80% of developers use. Who ever use a framework, of course.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tony Marston</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-410565</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Marston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-410565</guid>
		<description>There will never be a single framework which is all things to all men. Each framework has to be geared towards the type of appliation you are trying to write.

For example, if you are writing an administrative CRUD application to maintain the contents of numerous tables in a database rather than a fancy website, then you should take a look at http://www.radicore.org  Starting with nothing more than a database schema you can generate and run a family of tasks to search, browse and modify a database table in 5 minutes flat, all without writing a single line of code (PHP, HTML or SQL).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There will never be a single framework which is all things to all men. Each framework has to be geared towards the type of appliation you are trying to write.</p>
<p>For example, if you are writing an administrative CRUD application to maintain the contents of numerous tables in a database rather than a fancy website, then you should take a look at <a href="http://www.radicore.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.radicore.org</a>  Starting with nothing more than a database schema you can generate and run a family of tasks to search, browse and modify a database table in 5 minutes flat, all without writing a single line of code (PHP, HTML or SQL).</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AlexVN</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-410561</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexVN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-410561</guid>
		<description>&gt;That’s not to say, that there isn’t room for frameworks, but it will always be in plural. This makes them fundamentally different than the monoliths of Ruby or .NET.

I&#039;m sure Zend Framework will be de facto standard and will beat all other frameworks in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;That’s not to say, that there isn’t room for frameworks, but it will always be in plural. This makes them fundamentally different than the monoliths of Ruby or .NET.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Zend Framework will be de facto standard and will beat all other frameworks in the future.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: m0n5t3r</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-410551</link>
		<dc:creator>m0n5t3r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-410551</guid>
		<description>@penguin: there is a free book for php5 too, you know? :P

on-topic, rant mode on: you&#039;re right, php is just a (somewhat primitive, poorly implemented, crippled for commercial reasons, but eventually easy to deploy and scale) language; it&#039;s good that there are several frameworks, the problem is that I have yet to find one that doesn&#039;t suck: Symfony, the &quot;enterprise-ready&quot; framework supported the 0.6.2 stable version for a few months, then the docs and the svn tag were wiped out (and don&#039;t get me started on propel retardness), Cake wants me to write too much; the closest I&#039;ve found to what I&#039;d like is the Zend framework, which has a good library, gets a lot of things right, but has me writing way too much code for CRUD stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@penguin: there is a free book for php5 too, you know? :P</p>
<p>on-topic, rant mode on: you&#8217;re right, php is just a (somewhat primitive, poorly implemented, crippled for commercial reasons, but eventually easy to deploy and scale) language; it&#8217;s good that there are several frameworks, the problem is that I have yet to find one that doesn&#8217;t suck: Symfony, the &#8220;enterprise-ready&#8221; framework supported the 0.6.2 stable version for a few months, then the docs and the svn tag were wiped out (and don&#8217;t get me started on propel retardness), Cake wants me to write too much; the closest I&#8217;ve found to what I&#8217;d like is the Zend framework, which has a good library, gets a lot of things right, but has me writing way too much code for CRUD stuff.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: charmedlover</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-410487</link>
		<dc:creator>charmedlover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-410487</guid>
		<description>Äntligen!  En person från Norden på Sitepoints Bloggar. :-)

Anyway, you make a good point about PHP.  However, this does not attract me to ASP, it draws me towards Rails instead.  I still use PHP though, lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Äntligen!  En person från Norden på Sitepoints Bloggar. :-)</p>
<p>Anyway, you make a good point about PHP.  However, this does not attract me to ASP, it draws me towards Rails instead.  I still use PHP though, lol.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: PHP Penguin</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/comment-page-1/#comment-410472</link>
		<dc:creator>PHP Penguin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/10/11/do-less/#comment-410472</guid>
		<description>This is exactly why I have stuck with PHP - even the lure of a free book couldn&#039;t persaude me to stick with RoR...

I just felt it too restrictive on how I did things, that it clamped down on ingenuity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is exactly why I have stuck with PHP &#8211; even the lure of a free book couldn&#8217;t persaude me to stick with RoR&#8230;</p>
<p>I just felt it too restrictive on how I did things, that it clamped down on ingenuity.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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