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	<title>Comments on: Autopostback + Checkboxen=Dumb</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
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		<title>By: AndyMillne</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-193084</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyMillne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2007 15:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-193084</guid>
		<description>My network router has an option to limit bandwidth which I regularly use. It does not however allow me to test latency and other issues surrounding dialup connections, for this I use a regular landline modem on quite possibly the longest internal phone extension setup known to man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My network router has an option to limit bandwidth which I regularly use. It does not however allow me to test latency and other issues surrounding dialup connections, for this I use a regular landline modem on quite possibly the longest internal phone extension setup known to man.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-180986</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 21:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-180986</guid>
		<description>Checkbox or checkboxes. Not checkboxen. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Checkbox or checkboxes. Not checkboxen. Thanks.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wwb_99</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-180929</link>
		<dc:creator>wwb_99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-180929</guid>
		<description>Very good question Dr. Livingston

The work I do is typically on sites targeted at higher-end business users, so we really don&#039;t worry about modems anymore. But still, viewing a site at LAN speed or (or just on localhost) is 10 to 1000 times faster than most internet connections.

I have a few ways to test:

1) For broadband speed tests, I usually fire up the VPN out to my house, remote desktop into my home computer, fire up a VPN back to the office and then browse over that connection. The VPN maxes out in the 1 megabit range, so it provides a pretty clear picture of how things will work over a typical broadband connection.

2) For narrowband speed tests, I just use my blackberry as a tethered modem. It is a very laggy 56k connection so it brings out the worst dial-up has to offer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good question Dr. Livingston</p>
<p>The work I do is typically on sites targeted at higher-end business users, so we really don&#8217;t worry about modems anymore. But still, viewing a site at LAN speed or (or just on localhost) is 10 to 1000 times faster than most internet connections.</p>
<p>I have a few ways to test:</p>
<p>1) For broadband speed tests, I usually fire up the VPN out to my house, remote desktop into my home computer, fire up a VPN back to the office and then browse over that connection. The VPN maxes out in the 1 megabit range, so it provides a pretty clear picture of how things will work over a typical broadband connection.</p>
<p>2) For narrowband speed tests, I just use my blackberry as a tethered modem. It is a very laggy 56k connection so it brings out the worst dial-up has to offer.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Annesley</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-180471</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Annesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-180471</guid>
		<description>Re: testing on slow connections.

Check out the dot-point starting with &quot;Regularly use your site from a realistic net connection.&quot; here:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.die.net/musings/page_load_time/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Optimizing Page Load Time - die.net&lt;/a&gt;
(sorry, there&#039;s no ID/anchor to link to near the dot point)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: testing on slow connections.</p>
<p>Check out the dot-point starting with &#8220;Regularly use your site from a realistic net connection.&#8221; here:<br />
<a href="http://www.die.net/musings/page_load_time/" rel="nofollow">Optimizing Page Load Time &#8211; die.net</a><br />
(sorry, there&#8217;s no ID/anchor to link to near the dot point)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: plumsauce</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179986</link>
		<dc:creator>plumsauce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179986</guid>
		<description>I often see requests for modem emulation scripts.

Well, the *best* way to test dialup is to use dialup.

Modems are cheap and so are dialup accounts.

This message is being written on dialup.


Now, on the subject of the form, it&#039;s a horror show when &quot;designers&quot; feel the need to add some whizbang feature in some homage to being cool. Worse yet, they probably got a promotion out of it :(

They could have actually improved things by putting the checkboxes in 3 columns to make better use of the screen real estate.

Vendors get away with this because they have a captive market. Once a telephone company, always a telephone company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often see requests for modem emulation scripts.</p>
<p>Well, the *best* way to test dialup is to use dialup.</p>
<p>Modems are cheap and so are dialup accounts.</p>
<p>This message is being written on dialup.</p>
<p>Now, on the subject of the form, it&#8217;s a horror show when &#8220;designers&#8221; feel the need to add some whizbang feature in some homage to being cool. Worse yet, they probably got a promotion out of it :(</p>
<p>They could have actually improved things by putting the checkboxes in 3 columns to make better use of the screen real estate.</p>
<p>Vendors get away with this because they have a captive market. Once a telephone company, always a telephone company.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mrsmiley</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179729</link>
		<dc:creator>mrsmiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179729</guid>
		<description>Ok, managed to hunt it down.  Check this talk out that Harry gave (AJAX@localhost), there are links in it to the proxy and the switcher extention for Firefox.  Not sure if it will work for normal page requests...

Latency demo with commentary
http://www.phppatterns.com/stuff/latency.html

AJAX Proxy
http://ajaxblog.com/archives/2005/08/08/ajax-proxy-02

Switch Proxy extension for Firefox
http://www.roundtwo.com/product/switchproxy

Near as I can figure, Harry wrote the proxy himself.  Can always ask him about it directly if you need more info on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, managed to hunt it down.  Check this talk out that Harry gave (AJAX@localhost), there are links in it to the proxy and the switcher extention for Firefox.  Not sure if it will work for normal page requests&#8230;</p>
<p>Latency demo with commentary<br />
<a href="http://www.phppatterns.com/stuff/latency.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.phppatterns.com/stuff/latency.html</a></p>
<p>AJAX Proxy<br />
<a href="http://ajaxblog.com/archives/2005/08/08/ajax-proxy-02" rel="nofollow">http://ajaxblog.com/archives/2005/08/08/ajax-proxy-02</a></p>
<p>Switch Proxy extension for Firefox<br />
<a href="http://www.roundtwo.com/product/switchproxy" rel="nofollow">http://www.roundtwo.com/product/switchproxy</a></p>
<p>Near as I can figure, Harry wrote the proxy himself.  Can always ask him about it directly if you need more info on it.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mrsmiley</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179719</link>
		<dc:creator>mrsmiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179719</guid>
		<description>Dr Livingston,

There are proxy scripts that you can run on your development machine that can be used to simulate slow and noisy connections.  I think one of which is part of the Apache project or at least in their Incubator sections.

If only I could remember the name of it.  I think Harry pointed out one a while ago on one of his blog entries here at Sitepoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Livingston,</p>
<p>There are proxy scripts that you can run on your development machine that can be used to simulate slow and noisy connections.  I think one of which is part of the Apache project or at least in their Incubator sections.</p>
<p>If only I could remember the name of it.  I think Harry pointed out one a while ago on one of his blog entries here at Sitepoint.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pspace</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179623</link>
		<dc:creator>pspace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179623</guid>
		<description>Since the form is Javascript dependent anyway, this could have been an effective use of some Ajax magic to speed thing up a little. 

Plus I don&#039;t think it helps that Cingular&#039;s web site is really slow. Its probably doing alot of cumbersome processing behind the scenes, which isn&#039;t necessarily anything to do with JSP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the form is Javascript dependent anyway, this could have been an effective use of some Ajax magic to speed thing up a little. </p>
<p>Plus I don&#8217;t think it helps that Cingular&#8217;s web site is really slow. Its probably doing alot of cumbersome processing behind the scenes, which isn&#8217;t necessarily anything to do with JSP.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pspace</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179622</link>
		<dc:creator>pspace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179622</guid>
		<description>Since the form is Javascript dependent anyway, this could have been an effective use of some Ajax magic to speed thing up a little. 

Plus I don&#039;t think it helps that Cingular&#039;s web site is really slow, its probably doing alot of cumbersome processing behind the scenes, which isn&#039;t necessarily anything to do with JSP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the form is Javascript dependent anyway, this could have been an effective use of some Ajax magic to speed thing up a little. </p>
<p>Plus I don&#8217;t think it helps that Cingular&#8217;s web site is really slow, its probably doing alot of cumbersome processing behind the scenes, which isn&#8217;t necessarily anything to do with JSP.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179613</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179613</guid>
		<description>&gt; probably more importantly over slow and/or unresponsive
&gt; connections.

sorry for taking off topic, but you&#039;ve just hit a point that is a concern, as you point out;

does anyone know of a way to retard the connection speed during local development? i mean... to cause a slow down, etc without actually the need to modify existing script that is :)

if there were, then we would have a better indication of what effect(s) this would have on our ui design.

dr livingston, as always</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; probably more importantly over slow and/or unresponsive<br />
&gt; connections.</p>
<p>sorry for taking off topic, but you&#8217;ve just hit a point that is a concern, as you point out;</p>
<p>does anyone know of a way to retard the connection speed during local development? i mean&#8230; to cause a slow down, etc without actually the need to modify existing script that is :)</p>
<p>if there were, then we would have a better indication of what effect(s) this would have on our ui design.</p>
<p>dr livingston, as always</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wwb_99</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179553</link>
		<dc:creator>wwb_99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179553</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the phone suggestions guys. I have considered the Erikson, but I am working on getting over the wannabe walkman angles.

And too bad they pretty much quit shipping cool Nokias to the us. The only ones offered here are low, low end models for use as prepaid phones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the phone suggestions guys. I have considered the Erikson, but I am working on getting over the wannabe walkman angles.</p>
<p>And too bad they pretty much quit shipping cool Nokias to the us. The only ones offered here are low, low end models for use as prepaid phones.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Oren</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179537</link>
		<dc:creator>Oren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179537</guid>
		<description>Check out the Nokia n73.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out the Nokia n73.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LinhGB</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/02/14/autopostback-checkboxendumb/comment-page-1/#comment-179442</link>
		<dc:creator>LinhGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/?p=1850#comment-179442</guid>
		<description>Phone companies seem to make the worst UIs for their websites. I was with Telstra, Optus and Vodafone (and now back to Optus) - this is in Australia - and they&#039;re all shocking. Vodafone&#039;s site section for &quot;My accounts&quot; presents you with a menu of what you can do here, but none of the menu item is clickable. Instead, you&#039;ll have to click on the group item on the left menu then navigate your way down. The site is also shockingly slow and nearly unusable on a slow connection (I was struggling enough on cable)and incidentally is written in JSP. Hmm... ;)

As for your b., check out the Sony Erikson K800i, which is what I&#039;m using. It has the features that you want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phone companies seem to make the worst UIs for their websites. I was with Telstra, Optus and Vodafone (and now back to Optus) &#8211; this is in Australia &#8211; and they&#8217;re all shocking. Vodafone&#8217;s site section for &#8220;My accounts&#8221; presents you with a menu of what you can do here, but none of the menu item is clickable. Instead, you&#8217;ll have to click on the group item on the left menu then navigate your way down. The site is also shockingly slow and nearly unusable on a slow connection (I was struggling enough on cable)and incidentally is written in JSP. Hmm&#8230; ;)</p>
<p>As for your b., check out the Sony Erikson K800i, which is what I&#8217;m using. It has the features that you want.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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