Comments on: Atlas disappoints in cross-browser support

By: James

James — Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:08:11 +0000

Has anyone tested Atlas .NET framework on the Mac? I have a project that I think Ajax would be pretty sweet for, can you e-mail me please if you had success in the Mac browser? Thanks, jsemple@hotmail.com

By: dotnetguru

dotnetguru — Sat, 09 Sep 2006 15:44:39 +0000

A guy came from Maui and spoke at our .net user group the other night. He gave a 3 hour presentation on ATLAS and I feel that I understand it completely now. There was a guy at the meeting who kept heckling him as to why anyone would use ATLAS to do AJAX. The speaker was apparently at a loss to give any good reasons why any experienced javascript developer would want to bother with all of the complexity and heavy extra code involved in ATLAS. It also became clear that ATLAS offers little or no additional value to the AJAX equation…UNLESS you are using ASP.NET. It was the speaker’s opinion that ATLAS is basically for ASP.NET developers who don’t want to write their own AJAX code using javascript. He was asked by an experienced javascript programmer whether or not he would use ATLAS if he already knew javascript, and he said he would not.

I’ve been doing web development with .NET, javascript, and AJAX for many years. After having seen most of what ATLAS is about now, I can’t see any reason that an experienced javascript developer would want to use ATLAS. There is a HUGE learning curve, and personally I think even the best ASP.NET developers would get far-more bang for their buck by learning javascript instead. It’s clear that you don’t need ATLAS if you already know and are comfortable with javascript.

Now that I know what ATLAS is all about, I have to agree with the negative comments about it that have been made here. It seems to me that it’s just another high-level tool for non-programmers like Masterpages, Frontpage, or Microsoft Access. I can’t see how any “programmer” would find any value in it. On the other hand, if you don’t like javascript, or feel intimidated by it, then ATLAS would be a great way for you to do AJAX. Anyone who’s a C# developer would obviously not have a problem learning javascript, so maybe ATLAS is mostly for VB and non-programmer types.

By: sciske

sciske — Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:17:10 +0000

I see that I’ve touched a nerve. Didn’t mean to burst anyone’s .NET fantasy bubble .

Woooo. I was just pointing out some flaws in your conclusion. No flame intended.

By: jendy

jendy — Wed, 06 Sep 2006 07:21:31 +0000

this is far from an educated discussion.

I’ll leave you kids to it.

By: billgates

billgates — Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:09:18 +0000

>>What? Clearly you have not used asp.net extensively.

Clearly you have not tried to use it with XSLT and CSS…and you probably haven’t done much AJAX or Javascript with it either. You probably also like to use data grids and do your table sorting by making a call back to the server. The rest of us us javascript for that.

I see that I’ve touched a nerve. Didn’t mean to burst anyone’s .NET fantasy bubble .

By: sciske

sciske — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:43:52 +0000

Anyone who has used ASP.NET extensively knows that it does not play well with XSLT + CSS.

What? Clearly you have not used asp.net extensively.

Experienced web developers create “master pages” using CSS and XSLT, not .NET.

An experience web developer also knows that .NET is a platform and has nothing to do with the use of CSS and XSLT.

Just thought I’d point out these over sights :>)

By: billgates

billgates — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:14:17 +0000

Anyone who has used ASP.NET extensively knows that it does not play well with XSLT + CSS. In fact, one of the “big selling points” for .NET 2.0 is “Master Pages.” Experienced web developers create “master pages” usign CSS and XSLT, not .NET. Using any of these kinds of .NET tools will lock you into an architecture that will be expensive and painful to remove when you figure out that CSS and XSLT are better. When you put it all together, the problems with ATLAS become clear. You will find the same when you get some more experience building ASP.NET apps. Enjoy the ride.

By: jendy

jendy — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:26:06 +0000

why are people comparing Atlas and XSLT + CSS?

They are different tools for different jobs.

The essence of Atlas is that you can call server-side code from the client without a postback. aka AJAX

XSLT + CSS deal with the styling and transformation of data.

I sincerely wish you ATLAS people the best, but I think that the large majority of experienced high-end web developers are going to go the XSLT/CSS route.

…not to add a new record to a DB and send a email they aren’t (ie. a common server side operation)

By: Enterprise Ready AJAX Framework? at Coobro

Enterprise Ready AJAX Framework? at Coobro — Mon, 03 Jul 2006 01:11:18 +0000

[…] Let’s not forget about the .NET solution. Microsoft has been cranking away on their extension to ASP.NET, titled Atlas. Atlas is actually an incredibly easy to work with framework. I would assume that you would already be using ASP.NET when you decide to include Atlas, or are planning on going with ASP.NET. I think the .NET framework from Microsoft is quite robust, and I would love to code more with C#. The problems many have noted with Atlas is that in early testing it seems to create incredibly large files that the user needs to load, and cross-browser compatibility. […]

By: steve

steve — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:52:58 +0000

is it Microsoft Atlas in cross browsing? Yes, for right now, it might be improved in the future