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	<title>Comments on: If you must volunteer to show a client what you can do&#8230;.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: oceanwind</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11547</link>
		<dc:creator>oceanwind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11547</guid>
		<description>Non-profit work can be a very trick to pull off. I have started in web development a few years ago and one of the projects that I decided to do was a free web site for a community. Even though I have studied various aspects of web development I did not have the experience to back it up so I thought this project is going to be a great start. How wrong I was. Even though I treated the project with utmost professionalism I was never taken seriously. The bottleneck occured when I asked the owner of the business for the documents/content for the web site... 

Fast forward to today. More then a year has passed and I have completed web sites for other organizations some of them being paid projects. Yet this project is still left uncomlete. I'm kind of skeptical now - should I charge the client? Should I impose a fee on the client for overdue materials? I see all sorts of opportunities the community can gain from the web site but I don't have anything I can work on. 

It's quite ironic that you would expect me to blow off the project, but instead it's the owner!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Non-profit work can be a very trick to pull off. I have started in web development a few years ago and one of the projects that I decided to do was a free web site for a community. Even though I have studied various aspects of web development I did not have the experience to back it up so I thought this project is going to be a great start. How wrong I was. Even though I treated the project with utmost professionalism I was never taken seriously. The bottleneck occured when I asked the owner of the business for the documents/content for the web site&#8230; </p>
<p>Fast forward to today. More then a year has passed and I have completed web sites for other organizations some of them being paid projects. Yet this project is still left uncomlete. I&#8217;m kind of skeptical now - should I charge the client? Should I impose a fee on the client for overdue materials? I see all sorts of opportunities the community can gain from the web site but I don&#8217;t have anything I can work on. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite ironic that you would expect me to blow off the project, but instead it&#8217;s the owner!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: wonderbot</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11532</link>
		<dc:creator>wonderbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11532</guid>
		<description>I just wonder why Andrew was quick to pay someone else for the work he is complaining about being done for free? Why did he not contract the work to begin with? Another post in here indicates his is not a non profit business or charity. So basically I get the impression that Andrew is the one who should worry about his business image.

If you do take on charity work I agree with the many in here who indicate it ought to be treated as a normal project and scheduled accordingly.

~cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wonder why Andrew was quick to pay someone else for the work he is complaining about being done for free? Why did he not contract the work to begin with? Another post in here indicates his is not a non profit business or charity. So basically I get the impression that Andrew is the one who should worry about his business image.</p>
<p>If you do take on charity work I agree with the many in here who indicate it ought to be treated as a normal project and scheduled accordingly.</p>
<p>~cheers</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wolf_22</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11441</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolf_22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 20:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11441</guid>
		<description>Very true unfortunately...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very true unfortunately&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gamermk</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11424</link>
		<dc:creator>Gamermk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11424</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;but in the end, it should be about providing something to improve the life of another.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Any new business that does charitable work is almost always doing it to promote their new business. (ie. To improve their own life) I'm not saying that is right, but that is reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>but in the end, it should be about providing something to improve the life of another.</p></blockquote>
<p>Any new business that does charitable work is almost always doing it to promote their new business. (ie. To improve their own life) I&#8217;m not saying that is right, but that is reality.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: magistudios</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11399</link>
		<dc:creator>magistudios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11399</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;I almost hate myself saying that because charity work should (in the perfect world) given from the bottom of the heart or because you truely believe in the charity and the work they are doing… but I am a realist—and this is business.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Let's all try to remember what charitable work is all about.  Sure it has some marketing and business advantages, but in the end, it should be about providing something to improve the life of another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>I almost hate myself saying that because charity work should (in the perfect world) given from the bottom of the heart or because you truely believe in the charity and the work they are doing… but I am a realist—and this is business.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Let&#8217;s all try to remember what charitable work is all about.  Sure it has some marketing and business advantages, but in the end, it should be about providing something to improve the life of another.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Abby</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11397</link>
		<dc:creator>Abby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 06:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I looked into the idea of whether or not charity work is tax-deductible. Believe it or not, you can only deduct your expenses related to the project. You can not deduct your time. Sucks, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked into the idea of whether or not charity work is tax-deductible. Believe it or not, you can only deduct your expenses related to the project. You can not deduct your time. Sucks, really.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymously</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11396</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymously</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11396</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Never give your work away to get a contract. Any company that demands work to get a contract is sleazy and you don’t want to work for them anyway.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Marketing &#38; Sales is work that you will never get a contract to do for yourself and pointless if it is not "FOR" the client - so does that mean you won't do it. As &lt;strong&gt;kenzsa&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt; points out you need to see if it's an OPP or NOT... It is pretty common for large ORGs to request bids with comps and you've got to play to win.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Never give your work away to get a contract. Any company that demands work to get a contract is sleazy and you don’t want to work for them anyway.</p></blockquote>
<p>Marketing &amp; Sales is work that you will never get a contract to do for yourself and pointless if it is not &#8220;FOR&#8221; the client - so does that mean you won&#8217;t do it. As <strong>kenzsa</strong><em> points out you need to see if it&#8217;s an OPP or NOT&#8230; It is pretty common for large ORGs to request bids with comps and you&#8217;ve got to play to win.</em></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: kenzsa</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11394</link>
		<dc:creator>kenzsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11394</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Never give your work away to get a contract. Any company that demands work to get a contract is sleazy and you don’t want to work for them anyway. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I'm not sure that I agree with this, but I do understand the principle. It all depends on what precisely it is they are asking you to do. 

For example, how many hours do people work on tenders with the possibility of not being paid for the work. Or how many times has a graphic designer been asked to provide a "concept" for a job that if the concept is successful could net them many thousands. Same with Architects vying for large jobs. 

Has anyone asked a tax agent if performing work for a Charity is tax deductable? I bet it is.... If its not, as someone said earlier there are often advantages for the business to do the work that they just aren't thinking of right now (when the $$ are foremost in the mind). I almost hate myself saying that because charity work should (in the perfect world) given from the bottom of the heart or because you truely believe in the charity and the work they are doing... but I am a realist - and this is business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Never give your work away to get a contract. Any company that demands work to get a contract is sleazy and you don’t want to work for them anyway. </p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that I agree with this, but I do understand the principle. It all depends on what precisely it is they are asking you to do. </p>
<p>For example, how many hours do people work on tenders with the possibility of not being paid for the work. Or how many times has a graphic designer been asked to provide a &#8220;concept&#8221; for a job that if the concept is successful could net them many thousands. Same with Architects vying for large jobs. </p>
<p>Has anyone asked a tax agent if performing work for a Charity is tax deductable? I bet it is&#8230;. If its not, as someone said earlier there are often advantages for the business to do the work that they just aren&#8217;t thinking of right now (when the $$ are foremost in the mind). I almost hate myself saying that because charity work should (in the perfect world) given from the bottom of the heart or because you truely believe in the charity and the work they are doing&#8230; but I am a realist - and this is business.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pikal</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11392</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 03:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11392</guid>
		<description>Never give your work away to get a contract. Any company that demands work to get a contract is sleazy and you don't want to work for them anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never give your work away to get a contract. Any company that demands work to get a contract is sleazy and you don&#8217;t want to work for them anyway.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pikal</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11391</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 03:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/01/if-you-must-volunteer-to-show-a-client-what-you-can-do/#comment-11391</guid>
		<description>My company just completed a free site for non-for-profit.  This was a very rewarding project and did not cost me much to produce.  I did the artwork on my 'spare' time.  I did pay $200 for my lead programmer to do the mark-up.  Then I had an intern piece the site together.  So all-in-all it cost me $200.  We were able to get the site done in quick fashion.  &lt;a href="http://wishcentralfl.wish.org/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Click here&lt;/a&gt; to check out the site.  I think it's a quality site for being free.

In turn, they are going to promote my company in their quarterly e-newsletter.  It goes out to 800-900 volunteers, marketing experts and designers.  I am hoping to get people visiting my site.  I have a newsletter sign-up form on every page.  I then have a true opt-in I can promote my own company.  So, I would say that paying $200 and some of my spare time is worth getting in front of a potential 800+ people.  The key is to listen to i-devs above along with working with the charity before you start the work to establish a trade that has the potential to establish qualified leads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My company just completed a free site for non-for-profit.  This was a very rewarding project and did not cost me much to produce.  I did the artwork on my &#8217;spare&#8217; time.  I did pay $200 for my lead programmer to do the mark-up.  Then I had an intern piece the site together.  So all-in-all it cost me $200.  We were able to get the site done in quick fashion.  <a href="http://wishcentralfl.wish.org/" rel="nofollow">Click here</a> to check out the site.  I think it&#8217;s a quality site for being free.</p>
<p>In turn, they are going to promote my company in their quarterly e-newsletter.  It goes out to 800-900 volunteers, marketing experts and designers.  I am hoping to get people visiting my site.  I have a newsletter sign-up form on every page.  I then have a true opt-in I can promote my own company.  So, I would say that paying $200 and some of my spare time is worth getting in front of a potential 800+ people.  The key is to listen to i-devs above along with working with the charity before you start the work to establish a trade that has the potential to establish qualified leads.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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