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	<title>Comments on: Random thoughts on pricing</title>
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	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: darwinstudios</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9896</link>
		<dc:creator>darwinstudios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9896</guid>
		<description>I just learned a valuable lesson on a recent project bid.  The lesson is that sometimes you can bid higher than your value!  Learning a clients budgets and expectations for their cost is essential. I was referred a client from an associate and put together a proposal that seemed fair to both parties.  When I showed it to my associate, they suggested increasing the prices almost 2.5 times.  I might have actually *underbid* my way out of this project if I didn't.

The thinking was that this client would like to use a large marketing firm and was prepared to do that (and pay).  To bid too little meant the client would not take me seriously as a solution provider.

I put in the bid and should be closing on the deal this week!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just learned a valuable lesson on a recent project bid.  The lesson is that sometimes you can bid higher than your value!  Learning a clients budgets and expectations for their cost is essential. I was referred a client from an associate and put together a proposal that seemed fair to both parties.  When I showed it to my associate, they suggested increasing the prices almost 2.5 times.  I might have actually *underbid* my way out of this project if I didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>The thinking was that this client would like to use a large marketing firm and was prepared to do that (and pay).  To bid too little meant the client would not take me seriously as a solution provider.</p>
<p>I put in the bid and should be closing on the deal this week!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Halo-13</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9436</link>
		<dc:creator>Halo-13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9436</guid>
		<description>I have to say this is some of the best information that I have found on this website when it comes to selling your services. Getting a client to understand the VALUE of thier INVESTMENT is what make you a better service provider. Not only does it make them look good it make you shine a solution provider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say this is some of the best information that I have found on this website when it comes to selling your services. Getting a client to understand the VALUE of thier INVESTMENT is what make you a better service provider. Not only does it make them look good it make you shine a solution provider.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wbmdan</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9085</link>
		<dc:creator>wbmdan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9085</guid>
		<description>What types of marketing related questions do you use for prospects when meeting with them.

I'm looking for things that relate to the scope of SEM (Search Engine Marketing) and gaining them clients.

Sometimes it's difficult to determine what a client needs to include on their website...

On the same note I really like what ptpnewmedia about RIO (Return on Invesetment) and empahising the website is an investment not a 'cost' or 'expense' as many clients view it.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What types of marketing related questions do you use for prospects when meeting with them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking for things that relate to the scope of SEM (Search Engine Marketing) and gaining them clients.</p>
<p>Sometimes it&#8217;s difficult to determine what a client needs to include on their website&#8230;</p>
<p>On the same note I really like what ptpnewmedia about RIO (Return on Invesetment) and empahising the website is an investment not a &#8216;cost&#8217; or &#8216;expense&#8217; as many clients view it.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: whitestorm</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9053</link>
		<dc:creator>whitestorm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9053</guid>
		<description>As ptpnewmedia says, the key to pricing by value is showing your prospective client the Return On Investment that a website or your web services will provide them with and get them to understand that the outlay on a website isn't a cost as such but more an investment that should realise either increased sales and lead generation or reduced costs for them, depending on their specific business. Educating the client then is key to being able to raise your prices to a sustainable level over the long term rather than scrapping around for the "bottom feeders" who will always give their business to the lowest bidder, irrespective of quality or intrinsic value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As ptpnewmedia says, the key to pricing by value is showing your prospective client the Return On Investment that a website or your web services will provide them with and get them to understand that the outlay on a website isn&#8217;t a cost as such but more an investment that should realise either increased sales and lead generation or reduced costs for them, depending on their specific business. Educating the client then is key to being able to raise your prices to a sustainable level over the long term rather than scrapping around for the &#8220;bottom feeders&#8221; who will always give their business to the lowest bidder, irrespective of quality or intrinsic value.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ptpnewmedia</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9041</link>
		<dc:creator>ptpnewmedia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9041</guid>
		<description>I will take ccdesigns thoughts a step further. It is important that you measure and quantify the results from your web site. 

The examples are long but read through them and they will make sense on how to add value to a web site.

--------------------------

A company may not sell an actual product on the site. However, that company may be a service based organization and uses their web site to generate leads. 

The company uses PPC to help in the SE and spends $1,000 a month for this. The site generates 20 leads a month from PPC. A basic analysis shows that the company spent $50 to obtain each lead (which is low considered to other lead generation costs). 

Now assume that the company is able to do business with 30% of those leads or 4 people. These were targeted leads looking for the service that the company provided, therefore we can assume a higher closing rate. Each deal they close is worth $750. 

They have now generated $4,500 in revenue with a $1,000 investment giving them $3,000 total profit for the month. Over the course of a year, this relates to $36,000 in new business.  

It is also important to note that the lifetime value of these clients will increase as additional sells are made to them. Building relationships is so important here but that is another story.

-------------------------------

Another way to look at a web site is how it can help minimize cost. Assume that a company has thousands of documents for the products they supply. Each time a client needs a document the following process happens.

A client calls in and asks the company for a certain document. Next, the company's employee must dig through files to find this document and do one of two things. They can either mail it to the client if it is a large document or they can fax it. Of course mailing it would be more expensive. 

Now let's attach a cost to this process. Assume the persons cost to the company is $60 / hour.

Time spent on phone (5 minutes): $5.00
Time spent looking for document (5 minutes): $5.00
Time spent preparing document for mailing or faxing (5 minutes): $5.00

Total cost to send out document: $15.00

Now assume that the company must do this 10 times a day. This process is costing the company $150.00 a day / $750.00 a week / $3000.00 a month / or $36,000 a year. 

Keep in mind, this does not include printing, copying or mailing costs associated with the documents.

You approach the company and propose to do a web site for them for $10,000. The web site will allow them to have all their documents accessible to their customers on their web site. They will no longer have to spend the time to answer the phone to take the "document order" and find and fax or mail the document. 

At first the company may laugh at you. Now is your time to shine though. You break down the cost analysis of how much their current "document delivery" process is costing them. You then tell them that if they INVEST (not spend) $10,000 on the web site, you can save them $36,000 a year giving them $26,000 in additional yearly profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will take ccdesigns thoughts a step further. It is important that you measure and quantify the results from your web site. </p>
<p>The examples are long but read through them and they will make sense on how to add value to a web site.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>A company may not sell an actual product on the site. However, that company may be a service based organization and uses their web site to generate leads. </p>
<p>The company uses PPC to help in the SE and spends $1,000 a month for this. The site generates 20 leads a month from PPC. A basic analysis shows that the company spent $50 to obtain each lead (which is low considered to other lead generation costs). </p>
<p>Now assume that the company is able to do business with 30% of those leads or 4 people. These were targeted leads looking for the service that the company provided, therefore we can assume a higher closing rate. Each deal they close is worth $750. </p>
<p>They have now generated $4,500 in revenue with a $1,000 investment giving them $3,000 total profit for the month. Over the course of a year, this relates to $36,000 in new business.  </p>
<p>It is also important to note that the lifetime value of these clients will increase as additional sells are made to them. Building relationships is so important here but that is another story.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Another way to look at a web site is how it can help minimize cost. Assume that a company has thousands of documents for the products they supply. Each time a client needs a document the following process happens.</p>
<p>A client calls in and asks the company for a certain document. Next, the company&#8217;s employee must dig through files to find this document and do one of two things. They can either mail it to the client if it is a large document or they can fax it. Of course mailing it would be more expensive. </p>
<p>Now let&#8217;s attach a cost to this process. Assume the persons cost to the company is $60 / hour.</p>
<p>Time spent on phone (5 minutes): $5.00<br />
Time spent looking for document (5 minutes): $5.00<br />
Time spent preparing document for mailing or faxing (5 minutes): $5.00</p>
<p>Total cost to send out document: $15.00</p>
<p>Now assume that the company must do this 10 times a day. This process is costing the company $150.00 a day / $750.00 a week / $3000.00 a month / or $36,000 a year. </p>
<p>Keep in mind, this does not include printing, copying or mailing costs associated with the documents.</p>
<p>You approach the company and propose to do a web site for them for $10,000. The web site will allow them to have all their documents accessible to their customers on their web site. They will no longer have to spend the time to answer the phone to take the &#8220;document order&#8221; and find and fax or mail the document. </p>
<p>At first the company may laugh at you. Now is your time to shine though. You break down the cost analysis of how much their current &#8220;document delivery&#8221; process is costing them. You then tell them that if they INVEST (not spend) $10,000 on the web site, you can save them $36,000 a year giving them $26,000 in additional yearly profit.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ccdesigns</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9039</link>
		<dc:creator>ccdesigns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9039</guid>
		<description>David,

I can help answer that a little.

One thing I have learned while doing this now for 10 years is that very little of it has to do with the website you develop. If you are passionate about developing websites, have attention to detail, and never settle - lets assume the quality of the product you develop is almost irrelevant (because it is always good). 

Pay attention to your clients, ask a LOT of questiosn, and understand their business. The more you do this - the more ideas you will think about to make the internet work for them. This is extremely important. You will have a much more promising career in web development if you begin to understand each business you are exposed to and figure a way to make the web work as a unique medium.

One line examples from my career:
Jewelry company: e-commerce to sell products
Golf product manufacturer: e-commerce for retail; rep/order management for wholesale
Camp: online registration and Paypal payment
Car dealership: online inventory, credit app, contact forms
Nightlife: event listings, photo galleries, DJ mix downloads
Church: online donations through Paypal
Realtors: property listings, realtor splashes
Apraisals: order status and .pdf output
Advertising: proof delivery system and online portfolio

So what I am trying to illustrate here is that even if a business doesn't want to directly sell a product online - they still sell something: a service, production, . . . something. Find out what the web can do for them, and do it - the value will come the more you do this.

Hope this helps ;) Back to work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I can help answer that a little.</p>
<p>One thing I have learned while doing this now for 10 years is that very little of it has to do with the website you develop. If you are passionate about developing websites, have attention to detail, and never settle - lets assume the quality of the product you develop is almost irrelevant (because it is always good). </p>
<p>Pay attention to your clients, ask a LOT of questiosn, and understand their business. The more you do this - the more ideas you will think about to make the internet work for them. This is extremely important. You will have a much more promising career in web development if you begin to understand each business you are exposed to and figure a way to make the web work as a unique medium.</p>
<p>One line examples from my career:<br />
Jewelry company: e-commerce to sell products<br />
Golf product manufacturer: e-commerce for retail; rep/order management for wholesale<br />
Camp: online registration and Paypal payment<br />
Car dealership: online inventory, credit app, contact forms<br />
Nightlife: event listings, photo galleries, DJ mix downloads<br />
Church: online donations through Paypal<br />
Realtors: property listings, realtor splashes<br />
Apraisals: order status and .pdf output<br />
Advertising: proof delivery system and online portfolio</p>
<p>So what I am trying to illustrate here is that even if a business doesn&#8217;t want to directly sell a product online - they still sell something: a service, production, . . . something. Find out what the web can do for them, and do it - the value will come the more you do this.</p>
<p>Hope this helps ;) Back to work!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: aneitlich</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9038</link>
		<dc:creator>aneitlich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9038</guid>
		<description>David,

Great question and a big question. I'll get to it in next post...

AN</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Great question and a big question. I&#8217;ll get to it in next post&#8230;</p>
<p>AN</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dleal</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9036</link>
		<dc:creator>dleal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9036</guid>
		<description>Andrew, 

Since I found your blog, i read it all avidly until the present. I count almost all of your posts and articles as exceptionally enlightening, and for that I would like to congratulate and thank you.

With that said, there is one issue that I could never understand whenever price rates are mentioned. Specifically, we are told to price based on value provided but, for a novice like me (finishing my first site now) how do I know I am really providing value? How do I know (with almost no experience) that the site I just created will lead to more clients (even if its design is clean, and I believe I am communicating my client's message clearly)?

I believe a site by itself (and from reading your blog I believe it even more) is no silver bullet. That is, the site is just another tool in the client's marketing toolbox. For someone who does not sell their products online, the site acts like a glorified marketing brochure ("here's what we can do for you", "here's why you will want to hire us", and so on).

So, in my view, real value comes from helping the client attract more clients in every way possible, like helping them pick a niche and tailor the message to that niche, helping them find their strengths and improve their weaknesses.

To conclude, I believe there is value in a well done site, but the best site in the world won't help you if your message isn't clear, or you don't know who your customers are. On that topic, I believe you advocate that designers should be marketing consultants instead of "just" designers. This is especially valuable when dealing with small companies.

Back to the main question. How, then, to communicate value? Or, to put it more accurately, how to deliver real, meaningful value?

Thank you for your time,

David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, </p>
<p>Since I found your blog, i read it all avidly until the present. I count almost all of your posts and articles as exceptionally enlightening, and for that I would like to congratulate and thank you.</p>
<p>With that said, there is one issue that I could never understand whenever price rates are mentioned. Specifically, we are told to price based on value provided but, for a novice like me (finishing my first site now) how do I know I am really providing value? How do I know (with almost no experience) that the site I just created will lead to more clients (even if its design is clean, and I believe I am communicating my client&#8217;s message clearly)?</p>
<p>I believe a site by itself (and from reading your blog I believe it even more) is no silver bullet. That is, the site is just another tool in the client&#8217;s marketing toolbox. For someone who does not sell their products online, the site acts like a glorified marketing brochure (&#8221;here&#8217;s what we can do for you&#8221;, &#8220;here&#8217;s why you will want to hire us&#8221;, and so on).</p>
<p>So, in my view, real value comes from helping the client attract more clients in every way possible, like helping them pick a niche and tailor the message to that niche, helping them find their strengths and improve their weaknesses.</p>
<p>To conclude, I believe there is value in a well done site, but the best site in the world won&#8217;t help you if your message isn&#8217;t clear, or you don&#8217;t know who your customers are. On that topic, I believe you advocate that designers should be marketing consultants instead of &#8220;just&#8221; designers. This is especially valuable when dealing with small companies.</p>
<p>Back to the main question. How, then, to communicate value? Or, to put it more accurately, how to deliver real, meaningful value?</p>
<p>Thank you for your time,</p>
<p>David</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: webpusher</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9033</link>
		<dc:creator>webpusher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9033</guid>
		<description>Heartily agree with those whose experience of low paying clients - they want the moon!

Its strange, but if you can get clients who are willing to pay for your services they will usually work well with you, the project will go smoother and everyone will be happier all round.

It is difficult in Ireland though, the mentality of 'my nephew has photoshop' still pervades and people just dont understand what you are doing for them. Having said that margins are tight for most businesses today!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heartily agree with those whose experience of low paying clients - they want the moon!</p>
<p>Its strange, but if you can get clients who are willing to pay for your services they will usually work well with you, the project will go smoother and everyone will be happier all round.</p>
<p>It is difficult in Ireland though, the mentality of &#8216;my nephew has photoshop&#8217; still pervades and people just dont understand what you are doing for them. Having said that margins are tight for most businesses today!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: lorne</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9030</link>
		<dc:creator>lorne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/09/28/random-thoughts-on-pricing/#comment-9030</guid>
		<description>Maybe the price of GAs has something to do with all the raising of rates huh ??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the price of GAs has something to do with all the raising of rates huh ??</p>]]></content:encoded>
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