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	<title>Comments on: Dealing With Automated Form Spamming</title>
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	<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/</link>
	<description>News, opinion, and fresh thinking for web developers and designers. The official podcast of sitepoint.com.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mmj</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-411038</link>
		<dc:creator>mmj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-411038</guid>
		<description>AJAX works on the client-side.  It would be possible for a spammer to see what requests their browser is sending to the server and mimic them.  They wouldn't have to use Javascript to achieve the same - at the lowest level it's just an HTTP request.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJAX works on the client-side.  It would be possible for a spammer to see what requests their browser is sending to the server and mimic them.  They wouldn&#8217;t have to use Javascript to achieve the same - at the lowest level it&#8217;s just an HTTP request.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-410639</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-410639</guid>
		<description>mmj:

I guess you've never really coded with AJAX. The only possibility is that the person doesn't have Javascript turned on. And if they were to view source on any browser all they'ed see is the javascript functions. If the tried to call them from an outside source it would violate security and be rejected by the server.  AJAX's can work if you know the inner workings of AJAX's and how to program with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mmj:</p>
<p>I guess you&#8217;ve never really coded with AJAX. The only possibility is that the person doesn&#8217;t have Javascript turned on. And if they were to view source on any browser all they&#8217;ed see is the javascript functions. If the tried to call them from an outside source it would violate security and be rejected by the server.  AJAX&#8217;s can work if you know the inner workings of AJAX&#8217;s and how to program with it.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mmj</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-410502</link>
		<dc:creator>mmj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-410502</guid>
		<description>@anon:

Relying on Ajax to submit a form sounds like a very bad idea to me.  There are too many things that can go wrong, and too many ways it can simply annoy the user because it doesn't work as expected.  If the user's browser isn't capable of processing the script, they can't post.  That's a huge accessibility problem, as you have people using your blog on lots of different browsers, even mobile phones, where at least a regular POST form would work.  There's more maintenance required, because you have to keep ensuring that it won't break in any new browser, whereas a POST form has been part of the HTML spec for years and is usable on any browser, even line-mode ones with no images or Javascript!  You would be increasing security by decreasing accessibility, which is a mistake, because if a spammer were smart enough, they could simply look at your source code and figure out which request your AJAX script is sending and continue to spam.  It would be a bit more work on the part of the spammer, yes, but it is also likely to frustrate some of your legitimate users.  It also doesn't account for the case where the spammer is submitting their spam posts by hand, which is often the case.  Most of the form spam I've got on one particular blog has been from people who copy-pasted some code into the form and added a short message to it that's semi-relevant (agreeing with someone else's post for example).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@anon:</p>
<p>Relying on Ajax to submit a form sounds like a very bad idea to me.  There are too many things that can go wrong, and too many ways it can simply annoy the user because it doesn&#8217;t work as expected.  If the user&#8217;s browser isn&#8217;t capable of processing the script, they can&#8217;t post.  That&#8217;s a huge accessibility problem, as you have people using your blog on lots of different browsers, even mobile phones, where at least a regular POST form would work.  There&#8217;s more maintenance required, because you have to keep ensuring that it won&#8217;t break in any new browser, whereas a POST form has been part of the HTML spec for years and is usable on any browser, even line-mode ones with no images or Javascript!  You would be increasing security by decreasing accessibility, which is a mistake, because if a spammer were smart enough, they could simply look at your source code and figure out which request your AJAX script is sending and continue to spam.  It would be a bit more work on the part of the spammer, yes, but it is also likely to frustrate some of your legitimate users.  It also doesn&#8217;t account for the case where the spammer is submitting their spam posts by hand, which is often the case.  Most of the form spam I&#8217;ve got on one particular blog has been from people who copy-pasted some code into the form and added a short message to it that&#8217;s semi-relevant (agreeing with someone else&#8217;s post for example).</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-410415</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-410415</guid>
		<description>You could just use Ajax's. therefore there'd be no action page to process the data. Most of these bots just submit the form to the action page. If you eliminate it all together and use Ajax to submit data, you clear yourself of that burden of using CAPTCHA's. I've done so with Flash forms, and action script aswell....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could just use Ajax&#8217;s. therefore there&#8217;d be no action page to process the data. Most of these bots just submit the form to the action page. If you eliminate it all together and use Ajax to submit data, you clear yourself of that burden of using CAPTCHA&#8217;s. I&#8217;ve done so with Flash forms, and action script aswell&#8230;.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: shepherd</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-34431</link>
		<dc:creator>shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-34431</guid>
		<description>I'm love this great website. Many thanks guy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m love this great website. Many thanks guy</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: kippar</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-32911</link>
		<dc:creator>kippar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-32911</guid>
		<description>Nice site. Thank to work...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice site. Thank to work&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bobbymac</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-8143</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbymac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-8143</guid>
		<description>Despite it being increasingly difficult to prevent comment spam in an automated way, the spam is always easy for us to identify manually as spam - we can overlook the mis-spellings and other masking techniques used by the spammers.  And that has nothing to do with whether it is sent once or a dozen times.  If only that mental process could be reproduced!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite it being increasingly difficult to prevent comment spam in an automated way, the spam is always easy for us to identify manually as spam - we can overlook the mis-spellings and other masking techniques used by the spammers.  And that has nothing to do with whether it is sent once or a dozen times.  If only that mental process could be reproduced!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mittineague</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-2333</link>
		<dc:creator>Mittineague</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-2333</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Robot spoiler email entry&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281740&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robot spoiler email entry<br />
<a href="http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281740" rel="nofollow">http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281740</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-2334</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-2334</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;CAPTCHAs work within reason, but there is the possibility of proxying them.  It's a well-known trick that spammers use free photo sites of an adult nature and get users to solve proxied CAPTCHAs for them in order to gain access.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As demonstrated in some of the linked articles, as the CAPTCHAs become more difficult for ever-more-sophisticated robots to solve, they become more difficult for humans to solve.  That's the wrong way to go as you want certain humans to post or register, and a CAPTCHA that pushes them away defeats its own purpose.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think the best solution is a game that involves motion, logic, and has a timestamp component to it (i.e. you have to click a moving target and the time at which you click is as important as where you click).  The latency of proxying would cause the timing of the click to be out of whack.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;- Greg&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CAPTCHAs work within reason, but there is the possibility of proxying them.  It&#8217;s a well-known trick that spammers use free photo sites of an adult nature and get users to solve proxied CAPTCHAs for them in order to gain access.</p>
<p>As demonstrated in some of the linked articles, as the CAPTCHAs become more difficult for ever-more-sophisticated robots to solve, they become more difficult for humans to solve.  That&#8217;s the wrong way to go as you want certain humans to post or register, and a CAPTCHA that pushes them away defeats its own purpose.</p>
<p>I think the best solution is a game that involves motion, logic, and has a timestamp component to it (i.e. you have to click a moving target and the time at which you click is as important as where you click).  The latency of proxying would cause the timing of the click to be out of whack.</p>
<p>- Greg</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dean C</title>
		<link>http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/03/dealing-with-automated-form-spamming/#comment-2335</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">1085487319#comment-2335</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A good idea I had last week was to create a central repository of questions, such as what is the capital of France that anyone with a brain could answer and just offer them these questions in a dropdown and a field to place the answer in. I haven't seen this technique used yet and I think it'd work nicely.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Another idea I had was if you have some form of article or news system on your site, upon generating the registration form pull a random article and also say for arguements sake one word from the first sentance. And then ask the question "What is the 5th word in the first sentance of this (link) article?".&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Just a few ideas.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good idea I had last week was to create a central repository of questions, such as what is the capital of France that anyone with a brain could answer and just offer them these questions in a dropdown and a field to place the answer in. I haven&#8217;t seen this technique used yet and I think it&#8217;d work nicely.</p>
<p>Another idea I had was if you have some form of article or news system on your site, upon generating the registration form pull a random article and also say for arguements sake one word from the first sentance. And then ask the question &#8220;What is the 5th word in the first sentance of this (link) article?&#8221;.</p>
<p>Just a few ideas.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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