Comments on: The Grand Tour: A crash course in Java-less JSP

By: Get back to basics

Get back to basics — Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:20:40 +0000

What the hell is happening to the world of webdesign? This fancy new technologies aren’t making things easier, but rather more complicated. All the geeks are making this stuff less accessible to the general public. JSTL isn’t any improvement over a well designed jsp page where all of the business logic is stored elsewhere. I’ve met so many developers so obsessed with this or that framework that they are paralyzed to create anything that might actually be a useful tool for the general public.

By: Dr Livingston

Dr Livingston — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

Keep these articles going, and you might just yet convince me that JSP is suitable for web development.

I add, you might, as I see PHP being the ideal solution for web development, but I have an open mind :)

By: willthiswork

willthiswork — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

Having recently started working with jsp and after reading this article (5 out of 5 five stars anyway) I admit that it looks like PHP claim to be the best suited tool for webdevelopment is not very far from absolute truth.(imho obviously)

By: andre

andre — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

java may be the most scaleable stuff there is currently, but it’s also complex and you need to do a lot of stuff before you can do something as simple as “hello world.” nevertheless, thanks kevin for these great articles. i hope there can be many more people like you in the java community who can make java easier and more accessible for the rest of us :)

By: Geof Harries

Geof Harries — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

Kevin,

When are you going to be putting out a Sitepoint Java/JSP book?! I've been doing your tutorials here in the blog but would love to buy a book much like your PHP version, only focused on beginner/intermediate Java/JSP. What an incredible asset that would be to the community.

geof

By: Kevin Yank

Kevin Yank — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

Trust me, Geof, I want to write it as much as you want to read it. If all goes well I should have time to do so towards the end of this year.

By: Geof Harries

Geof Harries — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

yay! Thanks for the hopefully great news ;)

geof

By: Greg

Greg — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

Tag libs have one problem:

“ 0}”>…”

Don’t remember seeing that in any html tutorials ;-) How is the page designer supposed to REALLY know what condition you are testing for?

Just because the language has “<” & “>” doesn’t make it any easier to read to a page designer. Seems like there needs to be an evolution of this process to simplify even more. It’s a great start, but there has to be something better….

By: fatnewt

fatnewt — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

As Greg comments above, using Java tags is still Java, and it’s not suddenly a markup language. But it is a little less intimidating, and if you’re not familiar with it, it’s still a little easer to see how it maps in with your end-user markup.

I generally prefer the XML-esque nature of the Java tag libraries… not because I don’t understand the Java, but because it’s cleaner and easier to read.

I hold that PHP is better for building most Web sites, but Java/JSP is a good choice for a larger-scale Web application.

By: Dr Livingston

Dr Livingston — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000

> When are you going to be putting out a Sitepoint Java/JSP book?!

:agree:

Never really got into JSP but it's something I'd like to in the future, so hurry up Kevin :)