Comments on: 60,000 Lines of Javascript http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/ Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:36:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: HamsterBall.co.uk » Blog Archive » Javascript Inheritance http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-12899 HamsterBall.co.uk » Blog Archive » Javascript Inheritance Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:44:37 +0000 #comment-12899 [...] Meanwhile libraries like prototype and MochKit have evolved their own conventions and strategies which you may or not may not appreciate. I’m grumpy in each case . prototype, despite having some very cool code in it, extends built-in Javascript types like Object which I don’t appreciate—makes me nervous about mixing in other Javascript libraries from other sources. Meanwhile looking at MochKit (which may be the best AJAX implementation out there, having made good reference to twisted) suffers from the kind of smartness summarized here, when it comes to it’s “Base”. [...] […] Meanwhile libraries like prototype and MochKit have evolved their own conventions and strategies which you may or not may not appreciate. I’m grumpy in each case . prototype, despite having some very cool code in it, extends built-in Javascript types like Object which I don’t appreciate—makes me nervous about mixing in other Javascript libraries from other sources. Meanwhile looking at MochKit (which may be the best AJAX implementation out there, having made good reference to twisted) suffers from the kind of smartness summarized here, when it comes to it’s “Base”. […]

]]> By: SitePoint Blogs » Javascript Inheritance http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-12794 SitePoint Blogs » Javascript Inheritance Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:51:07 +0000 #comment-12794 [...] Meanwhile libraries like prototype and MochKit have evolved their own conventions and strategies which you may not may not appreciate. I’m grumpy in each case . prototype, despite having some very cool code in it, extends built-in Javascript types like Object which I don’t appreciate—makes me nervous about mixing in other Javascript libraries from other sources. Meanwhile looking at MochKit (which may be the best AJAX implementation out there, having made good reference to twisted) suffers from the kind of smartness summarized here, when it comes to it’s “Base”. [...] […] Meanwhile libraries like prototype and MochKit have evolved their own conventions and strategies which you may not may not appreciate. I’m grumpy in each case . prototype, despite having some very cool code in it, extends built-in Javascript types like Object which I don’t appreciate—makes me nervous about mixing in other Javascript libraries from other sources. Meanwhile looking at MochKit (which may be the best AJAX implementation out there, having made good reference to twisted) suffers from the kind of smartness summarized here, when it comes to it’s “Base”. […]

]]> By: scoates http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-1406 scoates Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 #comment-1406 <p>*cough*classkit*cough*</p> <p>S<br /> </p> *cough*classkit*cough*

S

]]> By: ammar_ibrahim http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-1407 ammar_ibrahim Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 #comment-1407 <p>Well the way I see it is that you can "enforce" some best practices in the language. for example Java has the keyword 'interface' In PHP you will write in the manual what you want people your framework to do. </p> <p>Now to me I don't consider any language better than the other, it depends on the domain. </p> <p><blockquote><p>use the right tool for the right job</p></blockquote></p> <p>PHP was perfectly designed for a certain purpose( i.e. building web apps ). Sometimes it's bad to enforce some features in the language.</p> <p>I wrote about this once in my blog, you can <a href="http://gnuix.com/ammar/index.php?p=87">read the post here</a><br /> </p> Well the way I see it is that you can “enforce” some best practices in the language. for example Java has the keyword ‘interface’ In PHP you will write in the manual what you want people your framework to do.

Now to me I don’t consider any language better than the other, it depends on the domain.

use the right tool for the right job

PHP was perfectly designed for a certain purpose( i.e. building web apps ). Sometimes it’s bad to enforce some features in the language.

I wrote about this once in my blog, you can read the post here

]]> By: Version0-00e http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-1408 Version0-00e Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 #comment-1408 <p>maybe ol' tony needs to look at this? ;) :p</p> <p>seriously though i agree that best practices specially in todays industry, need to be followed.</p> <p>unfortuantely there are some amatuers out there and in a way it's a PHP thing as the language is so damn easy to pick up :eek2:</p> <p>what the language lacks in complexity, it makes up in stupidity from some of it's users :D</p> maybe ol’ tony needs to look at this? ;) :p

seriously though i agree that best practices specially in todays industry, need to be followed.

unfortuantely there are some amatuers out there and in a way it’s a PHP thing as the language is so damn easy to pick up :eek2:

what the language lacks in complexity, it makes up in stupidity from some of it’s users :D

]]> By: Ian Bicking http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-1409 Ian Bicking Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 #comment-1409 <p>I think there's a problem specifically with Javascript best practices. They simply don't exist. There's no basic standards about naming, layout, objects, or abstraction. Coming from the Python world, it's certainly possible to create uniform, easy-to-work-with code in a dynamic language. With Javascript, I think there's no cultural basis, there's not even a culture of craftsmanship, just lots of hacks. It's not hard to see why -- there's lots of valid reasons, like Javascript OO is funky and widely misunderstood; people are used to cross-browser incompatibilities; and people come into the language through recipes instead of instruction. Recipes are a poor substitute for software. I do wish it would change.</p> I think there’s a problem specifically with Javascript best practices. They simply don’t exist. There’s no basic standards about naming, layout, objects, or abstraction. Coming from the Python world, it’s certainly possible to create uniform, easy-to-work-with code in a dynamic language. With Javascript, I think there’s no cultural basis, there’s not even a culture of craftsmanship, just lots of hacks. It’s not hard to see why — there’s lots of valid reasons, like Javascript OO is funky and widely misunderstood; people are used to cross-browser incompatibilities; and people come into the language through recipes instead of instruction. Recipes are a poor substitute for software. I do wish it would change.

]]> By: matthewh http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-1410 matthewh Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 #comment-1410 <p>What javascript unit testing frameworks are available?</p> What javascript unit testing frameworks are available?

]]> By: mrsmiley http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-1411 mrsmiley Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 #comment-1411 <p>60K lines of Javasript must make a seriously rich interface. Hope its not all in the same app, cause I'd hate to be looking after that beasty because its probably backed up by over 200K lines of server side code.</p> 60K lines of Javasript must make a seriously rich interface. Hope its not all in the same app, cause I’d hate to be looking after that beasty because its probably backed up by over 200K lines of server side code.

]]> By: josheli http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-1412 josheli Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 #comment-1412 <p>"best practices" -1<br /> "worse is better" +1</p> <p>if php ever starts enforcing "best practices" at the language level, its death knell will have sounded.</p> “best practices” -1
“worse is better” +1

if php ever starts enforcing “best practices” at the language level, its death knell will have sounded.

]]> By: maetl http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/22/60000-lines-of-javascript/#comment-1413 maetl Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 #comment-1413 <p>It's interesting that nobody has mentioned Flash in these discussions...</p> <p>Flash ActionScript is ECMA compatible, and in some aspects, nearly identical to javascript, but has a rich API, which offers many possibilities... Latest releases provide a fully featured object model, similar to Java in some respects, but without reducing the possibilities of the func/obj literal notation...</p> <p>Ok - it does have its drawbacks, regarding accessibility and whatnot, but it seems to be a far more comfortable environment to build rich internet apps, especially interfaces with more complex dynamic form controls.</p> <p>You could say that Macromedia took up the challenge described above, some 5 years ago, and its not hard to see how successful they have been... pretty amazing for what started out as a simple vector graphics format...</p> <p>I think the browser divide (IE6 vs Mozilla) is the main thing holding up open source progress in this area. Using XUL bindings, it should be possible to create some kind of in-browser debugger/editor for dynamic wep apps. People have already done it for CSS - so where is my runtime javascript toolkit?</p> <p>I needed it yesterday not tomorrow ;)</p> It’s interesting that nobody has mentioned Flash in these discussions…

Flash ActionScript is ECMA compatible, and in some aspects, nearly identical to javascript, but has a rich API, which offers many possibilities… Latest releases provide a fully featured object model, similar to Java in some respects, but without reducing the possibilities of the func/obj literal notation…

Ok - it does have its drawbacks, regarding accessibility and whatnot, but it seems to be a far more comfortable environment to build rich internet apps, especially interfaces with more complex dynamic form controls.

You could say that Macromedia took up the challenge described above, some 5 years ago, and its not hard to see how successful they have been… pretty amazing for what started out as a simple vector graphics format…

I think the browser divide (IE6 vs Mozilla) is the main thing holding up open source progress in this area. Using XUL bindings, it should be possible to create some kind of in-browser debugger/editor for dynamic wep apps. People have already done it for CSS - so where is my runtime javascript toolkit?

I needed it yesterday not tomorrow ;)

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