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  1. #1
    SitePoint Guru momos's Avatar
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    Webdesign vs Webdevelopment

    I create some things in photoshop and write my own CSS, but I write the javascripts and the PHP-scripts myself too...

    But I remembered a job-interview, where they asked:
    What are you a webdesigner or a webdeveloper?

    I actually didn't know what to answer, but I went for webdeveloper, since the job-description mentioned PHP and MySQL and did not say anything about photoshop...

    Wrong answer it seemed... They told me nowadays marketing is everything so you had to be a designer in first place?!

  2. #2
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Did you ask them why they hadn't listed photoshop and web design as a requirement? Sounds like false advertising to me.

  3. #3
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momos
    Wrong answer it seemed... They told me nowadays marketing is everything so you had to be a designer in first place?!
    Should have told them you're a New Media Developer. That's designer and developer in one. Then ranted on about how people who are just designers don't understand the technical aspects of a web project, yet developers can't grasp the all important userbility issues.

    It's all in the gab.

  4. #4
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Say "neither" and make up some title that better describes what you want to do. This was probably one of those provocative interview questions that shows whether or not you can think on your feet .

  5. #5
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia
    Say "neither" and make up some title that better describes what you want to do. This was probably one of those provocative interview questions that shows whether or not you can think on your feet .
    That's what I said, in so many words.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Guru momos's Avatar
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    Well, I actually started with saying: both... But then they said, what if you had to make a choice?

  7. #7
    With More ! for your $ maxor's Avatar
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    To me webdesigner means the guy who uses photoshop and writes some html...

    the web developer codes some C# or PHP...

    I guess the project manager gets those two guys working together. :P

  8. #8
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxor
    To me webdesigner means the guy who uses photoshop and writes some html...
    Well, for what it's worth I've been employed as a web designer, using only Graphics and a little HTML, and I've been employed as a New Media Designer, using ASP and JavaScript. For my own sites, I do the lot - so I think they're a little behind the times asking you that question.

    In today's competitive market, a designer needs to know a little development and vica-versa.

  9. #9
    With More ! for your $ maxor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeCop
    In today's competitive market, a designer needs to know a little development and vica-versa.
    Yup. There's no harm in knowing both aspects of the project.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Guru momos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxor
    Yup. There's no harm in knowing both aspects of the project.
    Still, you need to get a chance to prove yourself... their loss I guess!

  11. #11
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    Mind you, even though I consider myself a designer and a developer, I'm more of a designer. I don't think a designer can, or should be a hardcore developer as they're two separate disciplines that use opposite sides of the brain - Creative and Analytical.

    It all boils down to what they wanted. I had an interview earlier this year that was advertised as a developer with a designer’s background. That’s me!

    Nope, they wanted a developer who knew how to apply security protocols on updating and editing tables within a Sequel database. Eh? There was no element of design required. No one with the level of developer knowledge they required would have started as a designer.

  12. #12
    Non-Member Prosubmit's Avatar
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    webdeveloper fits best - I had people act suprised to find a php - MySql developer that did webdesign. You have to be a little of both to create good looking interfaces and other stuff?

  13. #13
    SitePoint Guru momos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosubmit
    webdeveloper fits best - I had people act suprised to find a php - MySql developer that did webdesign. You have to be a little of both to create good looking interfaces and other stuff?
    my thoughts exactly, especially when using things like PHP. I would say someone that calls himself a designer has good CSS and Photoshop skills, and knows how HTML works, and a developer would know something like PHP, mySQL and ECMAScript.

    But if your about equally good in both...

  14. #14
    Santos L Halper Zenith's Avatar
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    Web developer has to know all what web designer knows but not vice versa.

    It's a bit same as a (finnish) phrase "all sailors are drunks but all drunks are not sailors"

    -Z-

  15. #15
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenith
    Web developer has to know all what web designer knows but not vice versa.
    In terms of the technology yes, but not the graphical side. It's my experience that most developers don't know one end of PhotoShop from the other, but *think* they do.

    Also it's the web designer's role to think of the end user. I know of a company that had only developers, and although all of their sites and applications worked fine, they were very poor in terms of userbility, no SEO whatsover, and one developer even said 'What's a META tag?'.

    Nuff said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenith
    It's a bit same as a (finnish) phrase "all sailors are drunks but all drunks are not sailors"
    I'm a drunk, but not a sailor... alas.

  16. #16
    Santos L Halper Zenith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeCop
    In terms of the technology yes, but not the graphical side. It's my experience that most developers don't know one end of PhotoShop from the other, but *think* they do.

    Also it's the web designer's role to think of the end user. I know of a company that had only developers, and although all of their sites and applications worked fine, they were very poor in terms of userbility, no SEO whatsover, and one developer even said 'What's a META tag?'.

    Nuff said.



    I'm a drunk, but not a sailor... alas.
    Well I was cutting edges here to make it more simple. Of course web developer doesn't have to know all hotkeys of Photoshop but the point is the developer must know the designing principles too and it's often the developer's task to advice the designer that "hey, why don't we take that blinking pink elephant out of the front page". Developer must know what is possible and what's not possible, what kind of designing elements should be used, good practises etc. Then it's designer's task to do the creative work which is nowadays practically nothing else but going through image banks and *whistling innocently* , right Because developers are often engineers who got as much creative skills as a potato (that was a joke too). Most designers know how to build a website too simply because there're very good GUIs (not frontpage) which make it possible for even a 5 year old kid to create one.

    Another analogy: a web developer can be a project leader but I'd never put a pure web designer to that position. Of course there are many people who are good in both and the borders of these two terms are very shallow, and we could be arguing about the differences forever.

    Cheers,

    -Z-

    P.S Why did the summer come here so early...damn sun

  17. #17
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenith
    it's often the developer's task to advice the designer that "hey, why don't we take that blinking pink elephant out of the front page".
    I see what you're saying but it's just been my experience with developers that they have no iota of design sense and are mostly preoccupied with what can be done, rather than what should be done.

    To simplify a designer's role to just doing what the developer demands is taking away the need for a designer, you may as well have a trained monkey.

    To hit you with another analogy, a developer may build the engine and make the car go brum, but the designer comes up with the blueprint and tells the developer where to put the engine.

    Swings and roundabouts I agree, but I would have a designer as project manager because developers don't tend to understand the needs of the customers, that's the essence of a designer's role, and in the long term it's the designer who's responsible for the userbility of the website.

    If a script falls over, blame the developer. If no one can find the script in the first place, blame the designer.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Guru momos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeCop
    If a script falls over, blame the developer. If no one can find the script in the first place, blame the designer.
    nice one...

    In your oppinion I would be a designer with development skills... The user comes first, but I make shure I get my programming right too...

  19. #19
    The Mind's I ® silver trophy Dark Tranquility's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeCop
    Should have told them you're a New Media Developer. That's designer and developer in one. Then ranted on about how people who are just designers don't understand the technical aspects of a web project, yet developers can't grasp the all important userbility issues.

    It's all in the gab.
    Yeah I agree

  20. #20
    With More ! for your $ maxor's Avatar
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    So have we decided on a resume buzzword yet?

    User Experience Oriented New Media Architect?


  21. #21
    SitePoint Guru momos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxor
    So have we decided on a resume buzzword yet?

    User Experience Oriented New Media Architect?

    User Experience Oriented New Media Development and Design Architect

    or maybe:

    User Esthetics Architect

  22. #22
    Technical Director at StuckOn JakeCop's Avatar
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    New Media Architect or New Media Developer works.

    Keep 'em short and snappy.

    Or how about a real blast from the past, and just go with 'The Webmaster' (while wearing a cape, wizard's hat and making a 'W' with your fingers.

  23. #23
    SitePoint Guru momos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeCop
    Or how about a real blast from the past, and just go with 'The Webmaster' (while wearing a cape, wizard's hat and making a 'W' with your fingers.
    Yeah, cool web-wizard

  24. #24
    Are You There? KDesigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeCop
    Should have told them you're a New Media Developer. That's designer and developer in one. Then ranted on about how people who are just designers don't understand the technical aspects of a web project, yet developers can't grasp the all important userbility issues.

    It's all in the gab.

    Good title! Will definitley use that in the future!
    ChooseDaily.com - Follow on Twitter
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Guru DCS's Avatar
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    Why not tell 'em you're a freelancer and work for yourself?
    Then it doesn't matter what label gets applied to your skill set.


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