The customer isn't always right, but how do I refrain from firing them?

Business
1

It’s only day 2 of working with this given customer. It’s a small deal worth maybe $600, and I could really use the money. I met with them in person, talked with them for almost 2 hours, accidentally gave them a $10 discount on my hourly rate (but kept it there because I’m honest), gave them a fair estimate… Despite my lack of a proofread contract, I now feel that it was a mistake not making them sign the one I had.

And after being as clear as possible, they don’t understand. They are suddenly trying to corner me on the template I said I could apply to the CMS they want. What started as taking a normal template and cutting it as necessary for the CMS has become a sort of “nickel-and-dime” me to death by modifying a template to their layout! They specifically didn’t want me to design and make a template for them because it costed more, yet this sort of attempt will wind up at the same cost. I gave roughly 3.5 hours to customizing the template to the needs of the CMS, plus logo replacement.

The template hasn’t been chosen, but I’ve spent most of the day fretting, writing emails, and taking 2 calls with them over this issue. Considering the cost of the project, the mistakes I’ve already made, and the time I’ve spent in damage control on these misunderstandings (yet both speak English fluently) I’m already losing money.

It’s day 2 and I’m already near my wit’s end with my clients. :injured: How do I refrain from “firing” them, and buckle down and get it done while still being fair?

I could use some advice here on dealing with my clients.

2

hi WickedFlea,

I know exactly what you’re going through, except im in neck deep in my whole fiasco! The way around this for me was to charge more, just come out with it and say whats what and thats it, no one is going to work for nothing - in my circumstances they wanted to cut corners too - which is fine but nonetheless I wasnt going to be running around after anyone either - its still a nightmare project for me, LOTS of changes, lots of designs and lots of other 3rd parties involved changing things I DO that the client asks me to do, yet these 3rd parties come up with completely different ideas and Im like did I just lose a month of my life here? - its hectic and i wish it was just over for me, but the end is in sight thankfully…

This has been going on for well over a month for me, at the start I agreed a price but now…well its just doubled and they agreed - i feel better for the time Ive given but no money in the world would make me go through it again - no content, no structure, work miracles with no content and a pair of nut jobs :nono:

So I guess my advice is to look for ways around pulling the power back to you, you have to have control of your project not let your customers control you, break down what you have to do and see where you can bring back your cash and turn it into profits, this worked for me :tup:

Worse case scenario they don’t go for your new costings, I mean what do they expect - its so infuriating clients like these! So if they dont go for it, you dont work for nothing and you move onto something else worthwhile where you WILL make money, cause thats what it’s about, making money not giving your skills away for free!

3

If you’ve already had this much in the way of misunderstandings, DO NOT start the work without a contract. Write up one for what your initial understanding of the job was, as well as one for what you now think the work will be, fedex both and let them choose.

4

I have already changed their DNS settings, given them email accounts, and installed and base-configured a CMS for them. They had dragged their feet about picking a template, and once I started asking about the template the series of misunderstandings cropped up. I was very clear and precise with what I told them in the meeting, and in my emails and phone calls with them. Yet, somehow, they still misunderstand.

All that remains is to apply the template and train them to use the CMS.

After two lengthy email explanations and over 45 minutes in telephone discussions explaining the issues and what I’ve proposed, they still don’t seem to understand the issue.

They still seem to think I’ll just bend a template to their will, to fit their own wireframe, when they’re not picking suitable templates. I did offer to make a custom template (my base price being around $300), but they’re more interested in a $60 template from MonsterTemplates that I’ll have to bill them for adapting.

The main trouble is my newness to the independent contractor scene. In other words, I’m primarily making contacts and getting a few customers by my own direct marketing of my skills. This client is the first by referral from someone I know, and would be useful if I could finish this and get further referrals, etc.

Thanks for your advice Mizwizzy and Hurstool, do you have any further thoughts? Does anyone else have some additional insight?

Edit: Thanks for moving this to business and legal issues. I’m still unused to the organization of these forums.

5

no problem Wicked, you might get more responses in this Section :tup:

Reading what you wrote, I guess to me it sounds like they are playing dumb and taking advantage of your good nature, this “used” to happen to me alot aswell, especially when i was starting out.

Is there any way you can charge for updates down the line seeing as they have a learning issue with the CMS, you might be able to drawback your costings and perhaps break even? Perhaps charging by the hour might be a downside as they might not think the work they give you is reflective of an hours work! Usually I would just charge by update and the price is reflective of the amount of work involved, whatever way you want to break it down is your own business, u dont have to explain it to them!

Another idea perhaps is to show them the 2 templates in action, make your template/work-up seamless and incorporate as much as the chosen template as possible - obviously making your offer more desirable? A picture is worth a thousand words and if they have a problem with the whole email/phone thing then maybe this might get through to them!

6

What you’re tallking about is ‘scope creep’, pretty obvious meaning and some clients are expert at it!

One solution is simple, tell them ‘yes I can do that but it’ll add $xxx to my fee’. If they complain that they thought that it was included then you can refer them to your contract except in this case you don’t have one. If you’d charged them a deposit you could either have guaranteed coming away from this with something for your time or have a way of ensuring thier commitmenet to the project which would make it easier to add fees as they change their requirements.

On this one you might have to just eat it for the sake of a satisfied customer and a payday. Something to remember for next time though.

7

Take your original post with all of your concerns, and convert it into a message to the client. Just be honest with the client.

Tell them that the scope of the job is growing while the value stays the same, and that you want to do a great job for them but this is a recipe for conflict. Be clear that you want to satisfy them, but if it turns into 90 hours for 600 dollars it’ll be hard to do that. Ask them if you can speak with them about clarifying the project requirements and maybe getting it on paper, for everyone’s benefit.

You have little to lose by being professional, and working your ass off for $600 isn’t gonna help anyone!

8

I did walk out with a 50% deposit, so they do want to work this out. I’m also the second they’ve worked with, the last one dragged her feet for 2 months and took $800 or so in the process. They don’t have that much room to maneuver because of their own cash and time restraints.

So if they are trying to take advantage of me, this is why.

Sagewing, you’re completely right. I’ve tried to deal with this professionally, without killing myself, while being honest that what they want will increase the price… but somehow they don’t seem to get it.

JJMcClure, this is my second learning experience in the past two weeks. I’m getting a little tired of getting them so close together. :rolleyes: I’m just glad I charged them a deposit.

9

Wicked - you did better than me when i was first started out, i didnt charge deposits for ages! :nono: - you’re ahead of the game and the more you learn from cases like this the better business person you’re going to be :tup:

I absolutely agree with Sagewing also with regard to professionalism, this is paramount, and like what was mentioned, you aren’t going to get anything out of working for free in this instance! But chin up, just get through it and onto bigger and better things right? :tup:

10

I agree with what’s been said already but here’s how I might approach it.

  1. Talk to your client and try to work out and agree exactly what you’re prepared to do for the fee, along the lines of what Sagewing has said. Get it down on paper, signed by both parties.

  2. If it doesn’t work out consider returning the deposit in full. Yes it will hit you in the pocket but will save potentially lots of hassle. However, if you do take this approach it’s not unknown for clients to sit up and take notice and they may want to renegotiate.

11

Great! It’s like an accelerated learning curve :stuck_out_tongue: I know exactly how you feel, been there, think positive dude!

My way of doing this to protect myself from horrors is this:

  1. Go through a questionnaire with the client to understand what they need, this gives me th info to give them a pretty accurate quote and to be able to move onto the concept design if they decide to hire me.

  2. Produce a concept design - dead simple for small sites and on more complex sits it forces the technical spec which I get them to agree and so it acts like a contract - once they’ve signed off on the design and agreed the site structure I invoice for 50%. I’ve got a feel for them by now, they’ve had some work from me (but not too much) so they’re happy to stump up some cash and it’s a good basis to continue the project from.

  3. Complete the project … etc

12

When I read this, the first thing I thought was ‘ok so that’s the end of it’. If you feel like they aren’t getting it, then take your 50% and walk away. After all, they are in a learning curve too (obviously) and maybe they’ll come back one day.

Why beat a dead horse? Tell them that you hope to work with them again under better circumstances one day, but maybe the timing isn’t right just now. You have learned a good lesson, and your future clients will probably be more organized and ‘get it’ more. Why spin your wheels when you could be out finding those great clients?

And sometimes when you walk away, a client will suddenly ‘get it’ :slight_smile:

13

Here’s how the situation has played out:

I’ve fired my client.

Part of the deal was to put some custom stock photography into a slideshow for the client. It was in flash so I’d have to code a javascript clone, which was no biggie. However, when I saw that one photo was practically taken from an existing website I mentioned to my client that they have to buy it or they can’t use it. And what I got back was a nightmare (to me).

The tone that comes across, shaded by their earlier communications, is a smarmy “well, no one else has objected, why should you?” A simple right-click on the file and to view its properties reveals that, to no surprise, the image is from Corbis. A fifteen to twenty-minute search yielded the image right on their official website. This was the last straw.

They’ve insulted me professionally by their attempt to micromanage me, to wheedle free work from me, and by their condescension as though they were the only ones at the meeting (“well that’s not what I understood”). I put up with that, and last night I even thought that I’d figured out a way to get past all that to finish the job. But, to insult both my professional integrity and my personal morality was the last straw.

After all, if they’re not so concerned about stealing stock photography, then what, if any, second thoughts will they have about stealing my work?

The call was slightly surreal, but telling. They had heard what they wanted to hear and not what I said, even after almost seven hours of correspondence (3 calls, 3+ emails, and 1 meeting) on what I’d promised. It wasn’t even worth keeping the check, so I’ve voided it and moved on.

I’ve already got another small job lined up, so I’ll just keep slugging until I get there. Thanks for the advice and encouragement everyone. :slight_smile: