Recommended Max Field Sizes for Elements?

I am tuning my “article” table in MySQL, and would like to get a better sense of what is the maximum field size i should allow as far as search engines like Google are concerned.

From what I have read, Google only pulls the first ____ number of character from things like <meta> elements. Furthermore, I think that if you put too much data in these elements, that Google might actually penalize you from an SEO standpoint?! (Think “keyword stuffing”!)

So, do you have some recommendations of what would make good Field Sizes for the following…

1.) <title> element?

2.) <meta description> element?

3.) <meta keywords> element?

Right now I have the <title> as a VARCHAR(100) and the two <meta> elements as VARCHAR(150).

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Debbie

This is old data, from about 2006 or so, but I have it as;

<title> no more than 71 words,
<meta description> no more than 165 words.

I had nothing for <meta keywords>, but I remember reading then that Google ignores it or puts less weight on it so having good titles and URLs are more important.

So it sounds like my lengths are shorter than what you describe and so based on that 2006 data, I should be okay. (Of course, if anyone has information from 2011, that would be better!!)

Thanks,

Debbie

Google will only display up to about 64 characters (not words) of <title> and about 160 characters (not words) of <meta description>, so it’s best to keep within those if you can. On the other hand, I’ve not seen any evidence that Google will penalise you for going over … all that happens is that your site listing appears truncated in the search results, which obviously doesn’t look as slick, but there doesn’t seem to be anything worse than that. So putting a hard limit on the field size could turn out to be unhelpfully restrictive if there was a case where you wanted to include a longer title or description.

<meta keywords> really isn’t worth wasting any time on, its impact on global search is as close to zero as makes no odds.

So it sounds like my <meta description> is just about right.

However, it sounds like I might want to consider trimming back <title> if not to 64 characters, then maybe to 70-80? :-/

BTW, where did you find those numbers? Link?

Thanks,

Debbie

See http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/TITLE.html where the standard specifies that you should keep the length of the title UNDER 64 characters. That is the maximum that anything processing the title is required to see. Anything from character 64 onward is allowed to be ignored.

So would you make the maximum of my “Title” field to be 64 characters, or would you allow for a little over that?

Debbie

That obviously depends upon whether you intend on ever entering data that will exceed 64 characters for the TITLE or not? Though it seems your needs are for up to at least 80 characters in some cases; so either change the length or alter your behaviour regarding TITLE text.

If you decide to allow for longer titles then it may be worthwhile to build in a warning message if the length of the title is greater than 63 to remind yourself that some browsers etc may ignore part of it.

There is no actual upper limit on how long a title can be just a rule that says that character 64 and onward are allowed to be ignored.

The 71/160 BYTES sounds right to me, but as to keywords I’ve found that Google (or other search engines) ignoring them isn’t ENTIRELY true. They are ignored if they are not present in the BODY as plaintext; which is consistent with the entire POINT of the keywords meta: Listing words from the body text that are significant/important. That’s where 99% of people trying to use Keywords screwed up originally is stuffing them full of words that aren’t even present on the page in hopes of magically ranking on them – which flat out is NOT what the Keywords meta is FOR.

If you check the SEO analysis tool over at SEO Workers – which admittedly is a bit dated:
http://www.seoworkers.com/tools/analyzer.html

You’ll find they say that 8 or nine WORDS for keywords is ideal, and I suggest staying under 120 characters if possible. Notice that in their analysis they list relevance of the title, description AND keywords meta’s to the textnodes on the page. It’s funny how Google have been claiming that they aren’t counted anymore for about seven years now, when in testing, well…

… and lands sake, it’s called “keyWORDS”, not keyphrases, not keysentences, key-fracking-WORDS. Think of it like a word jumble – you’ll often see idioticies like this:

content=“Free Pascal Code, Free Pascal Tutorials, Free Pascal Guides, Free Pascal Examples, Example Code, SDL Example, SDL Tutorials, OpenGL Tutorials”

Again, it’s called keyWORDS, so used ‘properly’ this is just as functional:

content=“Free Pascal,Code,Tutorials,Guides,Examples,SDL,OpenGL”

… and last time I tested (about three years ago) they were only ignored under certain conditions – if you had more than ten items, if you had more than 120 characters, and if they have zero relevance to the actual SHOCK content on the page.

But if they exist on the page, you select just 8 or so of them, and use single words (or the occasional two word phrase when the single word isn’t relevant – see “Free Pascal” above because it’s the title of a compiler) it still provides a little more juice to those words than it would without. After all, that’s what it’s supposed to be for. You stuff it with two dozen “perfect match” phrases that don’t even exist in your content, OF COURSE IT’S GOING TO BE IGNORED.

Oh, and it’s supposed to be a comma delimited list – I’ve been seeing people using vertical breaks, no delimiters at all, colons, semi-colons, periods… Where the devil people came up with that being how it’s used is beyond me; Not long ago I saw someone trying to defend not only using verticle breaks (which he insisted on calling a ‘pipe’ character, which is wrong unless you’re in a *nix shell), but was stuffing the same values into BOTH keywords and description – NEITHER being valid use of said tags…

Even if keywords were truly ignored, following the simple rules (like those SEOWorkers suggests) makes it less than a eigth of a K on average, so where’s the harm in including it and SHOCK using it properly. (the same thing I say about the HTML4/XHTML1 header stuff the 5 lip-service tries to do away with)… more people use it properly within a narrow and hard to abuse set of rules, they might start paying attention to it again. Honestly, search engines could use the keywords meta and say they do so publicly if they just SHOCK CLEARLY DECLARED HOW TO USE IT… but of course nobody likes rules much less following them, which is why people just sleaze out HTML 3.2 and slap a 4 tranny or 5 lip service on it… Go bleeding edge of 1998 coding methodologies.

The description meta sees similar misuse since it does NOT exist for SEO purposes in terms of your ranking – anything you do with it for that purpose is abusing the tag. It exists to be the text shown on the SERP below your TITLE. As such it’s best to use a natural language paragraph describing what the site is for/about. Same goes for TITLE, which exists to be the title shown on a title bar for a window, on the taskbar, and has become what’s listed on the SERP as the text for the link to your page. It should NOT be treated as a content element as not all user agents show (or are required to show) it (see print, screen readers, etc).

Again, these are incredibly simple elements that I’m honestly flabberghasted to see the convoluted messes people turn them into.

Okay, and I am shooting for the 64/150 myself.

but as to keywords I’ve found that Google (or other search engines) ignoring them isn’t ENTIRELY true. They are ignored if they are not present in the BODY as plaintext; which is consistent with the entire POINT of the keywords meta: Listing words from the body text that are significant/important.

Ewww… Tip of the Day!! I learned something! :slight_smile:

That’s where 99% of people trying to use Keywords screwed up originally is stuffing them full of words that aren’t even present on the page in hopes of magically ranking on them – which flat out is NOT what the Keywords meta is FOR.

If you check the SEO analysis tool over at SEO Workers – which admittedly is a bit dated:
http://www.seoworkers.com/tools/analyzer.html

You’ll find they say that 8 or nine WORDS for keywords is ideal, and I suggest staying under 120 characters

On this topic, I would say that I “get it” and always have, although your point about making sure each “keyword” is actually in my copy will definitely help me fine-tune things!

My keywords typically look like this…

Keywords

s-corp,incorporate,incorporating,corporation,business structures,llc,sole proprietor
postage meter,metered mail,bulk mailings,postage,savings,mailing permit,usps

The description meta sees similar misuse since it does NOT exist for SEO purposes in terms of your ranking – anything you do with it for that purpose is abusing the tag. It exists to be the text shown on the SERP below your TITLE. As such it’s best to use a natural language paragraph describing what the site is for/about. Same goes for TITLE, which exists to be the title shown on a title bar for a window, on the taskbar, and has become what’s listed on the SERP as the text for the link to your page. It should NOT be treated as a content element as not all user agents show (or are required to show) it (see print, screen readers, etc).

Yep, I get this.

I always write my Descriptions like I only get 10 seconds and 150 characters to catch people’s attention!!!

Title

Double Dee: Postage Meters Can Save You Money

Description

Trips to the Post Office are costing you thousands of dollars each year!  
Learn how owning a Postage Meter can save your business both time and money!

Again, these are incredibly simple elements that I’m honestly flabberghasted to see the convoluted messes people turn them into.

I agree.

Good advice - as always - DeathShadow!!

Debbie

I have to retract the “a bit dated” comment about SEOWorkers analysis tool – they seem to have updated the results; I really like how they put in the full explanations along with videos of Matt Cutts pretty much saying the same thing.

You can tell I’m old school computing, as I usually aim for 64/160/128 (title,description,keywords) as my upper limits. Exponents of 2 for the win when it comes to computers (160=128+32)… though with strings it often helps to subtract 1 for the lead length or null terminator (depending on string type).

probably because they are easiest to calculate for addresses; the whole “multiplies are slow, shifts are fast” thing.

mov al,index
mov bl,160
mul bl

painfully slow.

mov ah,index
xor al,al
shr ax,1
mov bx,ax
shr ax,2
add bx,ax

Blazing fast.