Pls guide me to become FullStack Developer

I agree, also important to bear in mind that if you don’t focus in anything in particular at some point you will stand-out at nothing, so it will be really hard to get a market edge. Having said that if you’re a full-stack plus you are proficient in one of those things, then you will have an edge in the market. It’s close to impossible to master all parts of the stack so there will always be someone better than you at any one given thing.

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No it isn’t. If you obsess about every single detail and feel like you have to master 100% of every subject before you can move on, then you’ll never get anywhere.

Instead, invest some time in mastering the basics, maybe do a boot camp, start writing code and putting it out there (this part is important), get an entry level dev position and you’ll be well on your way.

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So the first useful advice I will provide is that php is basically dead. There are no good php jobs anywhere. Even if there are php jobs those jobs are maintaining old, legacy software and that is no fun. If you want to become a full stack dev learn a programming language like java, c#. Don’t only learn those languages but learn the major web frameworks associated with them such as; .NET Core, Spring. That will provide a basis for back-end dev. For front-end dev you will want to learn javascript. You will also want to learn one or more of the modern js framework such as; React, Vue, or Angular. That will provide much of what you need. If you want to take it a step further learn cloud architecture. Either AWS or Azure Devops. Learn how to tie all those together to build a modern age web app. Some people would probably also say you need html and css. Yeah… its good to have but honestly having a back-end, front-end, and cloud technology is more than enough. It is sad to say but the day of dedicated engineers for html and css is gone. Most people just assume you can figure that stuff out if you know everything else. Not to mention employers won’t be testing you on html and css beyond some basics. I spent 10 years in php land. Had I not moved to front-end development using Angular 3 years ago I would be completely screwed. I do not recommend spending one moment with php in this day and age. I only wish those 10 years of php was with C#… if only.

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Another useful advice is to intelligently use some white-space in your code to make reading easy. :wink:

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Yes, you are right.

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Agree. In fact Ill take it one step further. As serverless progresses, cloud will become more and more of a thing. Frankly I was a bit shocked when we started moving our stuff to AWS. At my place of work, here is what a full sack should know:

.Net, C#, AWS, Git, html, css/ sass, Javascript(ES6), React, Redux, Sagas, Webpack, Jest / Enzyme… plus some other things I’m sure to forget.

TECHNICALLY, I’m a front-end developer. My day to day job revolves me working on the front end of the site, that being said. Recently we added a new / updated part to the page that runs off of GraphQlLwith Apollo server sitting on top of and Express server in node inside a Docker container in AWS. I built the whole thing from server to css, so what does that actually make me?? At home for projects I set up a LOT of MERN (Mongo, Express, React, Node) projects… again, what does that make me? Its all JS, so since I don’t know a “backend language”, am I not full stack? I also set up JAMstack sites (Javascript, API’s, Markup), where I don’t even have to worry about a server.

Nope 100% not true. You want a “full stack” job (whatever that means now a days), you should DEFINITELY know this stuff. One of the smartest guys I worked with was a whiz with the backend and React, but (and admittedly) couldn’t do CSS and didn’t have a full grasp of semantic markup, so never got thru to “full stack”.

Again 100% not true. We most definitely want to see if you know whats up with this as well. All this being said my ACTUAL advise is to pick one or the other. Its hard enough keeping up with the ever changing front end landscape, adding back end to it would just add to the load.

Here’s a little site covering what I was speaking on:
Ooops I guess we’re full-stack developers

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I assume you mean definitely.

Sure did, lol.

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What he/she said.

I said that - per the quote in the article you posted - that it is a “pipe-dream” to become a full-stack developer in 8-12 months.

You disagree with that?

For someone starting from scratch - or even with newbie skills - I challenge anyone to even become a “master” at HTML or CSS in 8-12 months.

There are people here at SitePoint that have spent nearly a decade just focusing on HTML and CSS and I bet some of them still feel like they are learning!

The general rule I have heard is that it takes about 10 years to “master” any given topic - and that assumes you do it day in and day out.

Do I believe that some could “push the envelope” and claim “mastery” of several IT topics in 8-10 years? Yes.

But for most, it will take 3-4 years to gain true proficiency in any given topic.

Nothing happens in “months”…

Can the OP become a Full-Stack Developer? Yes. Will it take you years to get to a point that you can land a legitimate job doing it? You better believe so.

Better hope you are in your 20’s and not in your 40’s or 50’s, otherwise you may be wasting your time…

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I have been at this over 30 years and I still learn new things every single day.

It’s perfectly possible in that timescale. If it were untrue, boot camps couldn’t exist, and they generally run for 12-16 weeks in most cases. I did mine with General Assembly and secured my first role a month after I finished the course. Was I the finished article? Not even close, but virtually everyone on my course (30 of us) secured roles within the first 6 months of completing the course.

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@chrisofarabia,

Saying that you know how to do something, and even landing a job, after 8-12 months is conceivable. But actually knowing what in the hell you are doing after 8-12 months is a joke.

Ever hear about “paper MCSEs” of the late 90s and early aughts?

It depends if the OP just wants to “get by” or wants to take pride at what he/she is doing and truly master it. And no one can master any one thing in under a year. Basically proficiency? Yes. Mastery? No way.

A truly qualified “Full-Stack Developer” can easily command US$80-$100/hour.

A Bootcamp is enough to land you a job paying $40-$60k.

Huge difference.

My advice to the OP is pick 1-3 technologies you are most interested in. Spend the next year or two trying to become as proficient as possible. Simultaneously start building a portfolio applying said technologies. And as they become easier, add in new technologies to your tool belt.

A Full-Stack Developer should be able to go buy a server, set it up, secure it, then on the app side design and build out a fully normalized(/denormalized) database, write all of the back-end server-side application code, build the front-end GUI,fill it with useful content, tune it for performance, optimize it for SEO, and ultimately sell it to someone or make money off of it. Building a profitable online web app from soup-to-nuts. The whole shebang!

You can get there, but set realistic expectations…

Good luck!! :slight_smile:

This might just be a side-effect of PHP being used by close to 80% of the web (10% more than 10 years ago). Whereas PHP might not be the most fashionable choice to make these days it is very hard for me to agree that PHP is dead or that it will ever be in the near future.

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I might be venting a bit. However, I have been on the job market for a few months. I have seen what is in demand. It is not php. The job market saturated with React and Angular for front-end. For back-end it is .NET and Java for micro-service or monolithic REST API development. Also cloud tech like AWS or Azure. Docker is also huge. Being able to deploy applications using containerization technologies and environments like Kubernetes. When I say what I say about php I just relate back to the countless posts here about people learning php. I just wonder why. Like no one cares. Especially if you want a high paying job in tech. Maybe for maintaining websites but like php has been mostly obsolesced with micro-services and javascript front-ends for modern web apps. I don’t think I’ve seen but one or two emails about php jobs. Mostly they are about Magento. No one wants to do that. The age of the Monolithic CMS is over. Its important to remain marketable in this industry. So when I see people learning php I just can’t help to say why. I spent 10 years in php and that is all useless. The only thing people / companies care about is my last three years using Angular. Also my last 6 months of .NET Core / C# using micro-services. Every Full stack dev job which I have applied or interviewed has come down to knowing C#, Java, or Python better, with more experience. The meaning of full stack has changed with the evolution of web with micro-services and javascript driven front-ends.

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I like https://www.freecodecamp.org/ to learn developer skills. They also have a full-stack certification. You can look around the forum to find out how long it took others to complete it.

This is totally true. The web has moved forward. Knowing AWS suite and Python, C# and node.js is more likely to land you a job backend wise than php now a days.

I was talking to someone leaving my company (Published backend architect), and when I mentioned the use of PHP he kinda laughed and went “yeah I know Latin also”, and this is from someone who is currently looking. The fact that he worked with me on our little graphQL project got more interest, just things to keep in mind when you choose.

Now my turn :slight_smile: .

You are right that PHP is not the latest trend, but trends are fuelled by novelty and a little ignorance of the new. In tech there are no silver bullets and it takes some time to realise the price of the tradeoffs of the decisions you made to build an application that will last for years.

And with the fast pace of the web the age of monolithic Angular and React apps is already upon us, and I think they are doing no favour to the web at large, we should have embraced web components a long time ago and we would already be far ahead, with truly reusable quality components instead of half baked Angular and React components that are tied to a specific framework. A couple of years later all of those stakeholders will be wondering how to get out of that monolithic framework and will be stuck with old tech.
Also that market saturation will mostly be targeting entry-level devs without a lot of experience and who are able to get around with those frameworks, which is by far a different thing than hiring a senior JavaScript developer who can pick up any framework in a matter of days. I think unfortunately the industry is overseeing having good developers and architects in favour of hiring devs experienced on X framework, but that is anyways businesses trying to save money and where most of the saturation comes from.

I’m not sure I prefer any of those jobs to maintaining an existing Wordpress application.

IMHO opinion the age of monolithic CMS has only just begun. It is by virtue of them that the web is closer to a huge amount of smaller businesses without a big budget or less technical people and I think this will never change. Web CMS is a really new thing that still has to evolve and improve a lot. And I think we are going to witness that evolution in the coming years.

Again when the web runs 80% on PHP is hard for me to see the uselessness in knowing PHP. Anyways it is just another programming language, once you know it you can pick up others if you like.

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I wasn’t going to add more to this but, your using this term wrong in this context.Its not monolithic because its React or Angular ad monolithic is more of an overall architecture/implementation. In fact React kinda works better with microservices. A React app sure can be part of a monolith, but doesn’t HAVE to be.

To start, I have NOTHING against PHP. I started in this field doing Wordpress so I get it… that being said, lol. I do keep seeing the 80% number getting thrown around but to be COMPLETELY fair, 60% of those are using an outdated/ no longer supported version. So that’s (does quick math in head), like 48% rounding of the internet running on outdated possibly not secure code. But hey, fair is fair and I’m willing to bet a ton of sites are using unsecured jquery as well.

And that last bit is the one that counts. So ye ole Personal Home Page has been overhauled and changed what like 7 major times? All things can change. Obviously you have an issue with React and Angular for whatever reason, to each there own. But these (esp React and Vue) are steps AWAY from this monolith your raging into the light about. Wordpress itself has exposed an API for micro-services so even they see the value and made an update to stay relevant no matter WHICH way the wind blows. Again please keep in mind I did start as a full stack PHP developer.

And PHP should not be blamed for it as it is already far ahead despite the adoption of new versions. It is exactly the same thing that will happen with all those Angular and React apps in a few years. I forgot to mention I work maintaining an old AngularJS app and we are stuck years behind the web for it, and there is no easy way out. So this has already started.

I think they’re great to build something fast (like a to-do app) and learn in order to get an entry-level position in the industry fast.
Personally, in my own opinion, if used to build an application that has some expected longevity and needs to survive time and be at the edge of web technology: the main thing is that once you’re in it is hard to get out, and I believe they’ve designed them like this in order to gain market advantage. React can be a bit of a monolith because it completely enforces the way in which you should build your application. They have abstracted the only API that works across the board, the DOM API and all just so that you can write templates in JavaScript. Probably the only part which is ever hardly reused in web development are HTML templates. Functional JavaScript does not need to care in the least about HTML structure or non functional styles, and my experience tells me the way to achieve most reusability is by separating those. Somehow React promotes the old HTML, CSS, JavaScript spaghetti in one file. And I’m not impressed either about the whole set of usability and accessibility issues that the new sites built with these frameworks present.

Yeah but it is what it tends to be.

I have a little fear whenever running npm audit in any of the ‘new’ JavaScript applications. It normally reveals many critical vulnerabilities and most businesses turn a blind eye on it, no matter how much they rave about security.

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