How do you design websites?

[ArtphotoasiA]

@Mr358

I am learning to design websites, and am getting pretty good at it. But it does take a lot of time to write all of the HTML.

To someone that designs websites on a daily basis, do you really code all of this stuff by hand? I have noticed programs like Dreamweaver and Expression Web. Do professional website designers use programs like these to make the job easier?

I don’t see how anyone could ever get anywhere, doing everything by hand. It takes too much time.

Edit:
One other question as well. My professor is leading us away from using frames for a number of reasons. But when you want to create the same look on every page, (header/footer/sidebar links, etc…) how can you get around this issue without using frames?

I created a template for the website, and put all the common stuff in that HTML file. Then every time I need to add a new page I copy that file, rename it, and just enter the body/content. It worked fine, until I needed to add a new link or design to the navbar. I made that design in the template.html file. All new pages now have that design, but I still have to go back and manually add the new links to 30+ HTML files that were already created.

How do I get around that?

I had your same problem, and I used dreamweaver since 8 years and now i have to say that now i code all by hand witout looking the results when finish… i mean i do not use dreamweaver like a standard visual editor but like a code editor and I use it a lot (is a great TOOL) to manage the links changed, files changed, to find and replace code or pice of code along a whole website or a whole directory.

Regarding your question “”" add the new links to 30+ HTML files that were already created “”" try to use this INCLUDE funcion in php, you do not need to know also php in order to do that (i do not, but i will learn)

 
  <div class="menuleft">
  <?php include("menu.php"); ?>
  </div>

  <div class="footer">
  <?php include("footer.php"); ?>
   </div>

With this few lines you can add a menu on the left of your page side and also a footer on the base (usualy are the main issues) .
(1) create a menu like you do in html call it menu.php
(2) create a footer like you do in html call it footer.php
(3) create a page content like you do in html call it page1.php

• define your CSS class properly in a CSS file

• take out all / headers / and opening html / and body tag from (1) and (2) live them jut in (3)

• add the code above to page1 content accordingly with your needs and design

• save all files like .php

• upload

you must have solved…

now… all the pages of your website will change automatically each time you modify and save your menu.php or footer.php

in case you want also add a header you can do that with the same way but in this case must keep in the headers / html / and body tag scripts etc

The main concept you must always remember managing a page in this way is that THE CODE WILL BE ADDED … so all the codes of page1+footer+header+menu+whatever must be consistent together (example can not have a couple of tag body all div must close the closing tag of body and html must stay in the footer final file)

Regards

[ArtphotoasiA]

@fashionbags

i know about the HTML and CSS， but i dont know the PHP, ASP
how can i design the website well?

there are many ways…

with a GOOD knowledge of CSS and html/xhtml (and little php is usefull) you can modify/create completely a template of wordpress and make a blog or a template of oscommerce or cubecart and make a shop online… or a CMS like jomla or similar…

of course you will not be able to modify the php engine (will be my next step i hope) but can modify the container… and is already a big job!

[ArtphotoasiA]

@BlakeAnthony

Yeah, I do atleast. If you want to get anywhere far with web design. Your going to have to learn the languages from the beginning. …

Dreamweaver - teaches developers on HOW NOT to code correctly. So, do yourself a favor and uninstall it…
.

Agree 100%
Sure… the hard part is the beginning… then… code by hand… and use DW to maximaise your effort…

[AlexDawson]

@Black_Max

No, actually, many professional Web designers do write code by hand. They often do not use Dreamweaver’s WYSIWYG editor and work instead in the hard-code section of the program. Many professionals don’t use DW (or Expression Engine, or whatever) at all, preferring to use an enhanced text editor like Notepad++. Now, plenty of Web professionals use DW for one purpose or another, particularly as it can integrate with Photoshop and work with PHP, ColdFusion, etc. But your statement is far too inclusive and, in some senses, just plain wrong.

I would just ignore him Max, if you check his other post’s their pretty much entirely comprised of Fluff, in a typography thread his “idea” of giving advice was a claim of sticking to Arial. I would say the opposite to his statement is true, less people use Dreamweaver (or a related product) than hand code because anyone who’s been in the industry a while will realise how bad they really are, and less bloated products usually mean we end up with a more streamlined experience.

@fashionbags

i know about the HTML and CSS， but i dont know the PHP, ASP
how can i design the website well?

It depends, the graphical appearance of a website (which I assume you want to know about) in respect to the design does not require server-side scripting like PHP or ASP. Most of it is comprised of HTML, CSS and JavaScript. What exactly did you want to know in terms of good design / design theory?

[ArtphotoasiA]

@AlexDawson

I would just ignore him Max,

Up to you… I was just here to share my few cents…

beside that… I said and I agree that code must be checked and written by hand. DW can help to manage and change things in a website with hudreds of pages with just few click using search and replace. This thing is great.

[AlexDawson]

Notepad++ can do that, changing hundreds of pages quickly and easily… and it doesn’t have a WYSIWYG editor bolted onto the roof bloating up the UI.

[ArtphotoasiA]

@AlexDawson

Notepad++ can do that, changing hundreds of pages quickly and easily… and it doesn’t have a WYSIWYG editor bolted onto the roof bloating up the UI.

Thank you I did not know … sure is a good way to work …

[Jon_Buoy]

Mr358
I went through a similar dilemma about three years ago, seeing lots of fancy looking sites, that looked visually much better than my output. I installed a trial version of Dreamweaver and put aside lots of time each day to learn how to use it. I very quickly realised that the standard templates produced so much junk code that my pages became too large and because I hadn’t coded them by hand, I didn’t know how to slim them down without messing the whole thing up.

I’ve now gone back to basics and have spent my time learning the basics of html, css and php coding everything within Crimson Editor. It takes longer intially, but I think it’s worth it in the end.

Oh and some of the css layout templates at Dynamic Drive are worth a look to get a page layout started. Throw in a bit of CSS and the odd php include and you’re on your way.

[cludos]

@Dr_John

The output from the php script, which runs on the server, is just html. It’s the output that is validated. And therefore validating the output it is sent is no more difficult than if the original page was just pure html. The validator never sees the php at all.
PS I validated a set of php pages last week. No problem at all.

@rguy84

…so the validatro runs your php code (basically converts it to the html) then validates

Dr John, I was replying to rguy84’s specific claim that the W3C validator converts your PHP code to HTML. You’re saying the same thing as me, except using much better language.

[hibeads]

if only know the html and the css…mabe only can design the static…I always make every pages…then link…slowly…

[ArtphotoasiA]

[Dynamic Drive are worth a look to get a page layout started. Throw in a bit of CSS and the odd php include and you’re on your way.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the suggestion… I knew that website already and use some of their javascript sometimes … but did not look at css pages…

I will check.

[Spark_Creative]

Softpress » Rather good design software for Mac

[jonathonbyrd]

Wow frames… I haven’t used frames for about ten years…

I code all of my websites by hand. There is however a lot of cut, paste, customize involved in coding. But yes, I code thousands of lines of code a day.

Sometimes it feels like I didn’t accomplish anything for the day because of interuptions that cost me hundreds of lines, or bugs that cost me hours.

I use Dreamweaver when coding templates because Zend studio doesn’t work with html files or css very well.

But its zend studio all the way when coding html, php, javascript, mysql. all the rest.