Client from sweet to poison - refuses to pay for 90% completed work, AND work of may

Business
1

I have a client who started off nice, but pushy - and has ended up with him fabricating everything. Since Mayday and the introduction of Googles Local 7 for local business search, his first page organic listings have taken a hit. In addition the guy who has been doing PPC for him for the last few years turned the campaign off which was bringing in a majority of the business.

Due to the above, his business has gone down when he hired me to do some extra work, and his wife who is basically evil incarnate has been egging him on to cancel working with me and pretty much she is against everything in the world. He mentioned how he ‘fights’ against her opinion that he knows is wrong, but has decided last week to completely go into his bad ideas.

I sent him long detailed e-mails explaining why I am not to blame, and that in fact despite everything he says his traffic has INCREASED month after month since I started working with him but he doesn’t want to accept anything I say and his response is simply “My bottom line is the fine word.”…

He commisioned me to imrpove his site, but wouldn’t allow me to touch the layout/design which was disgusting to say the least… As a result he has this ugly messed up looking site that is converting poorly, and only a few weeks ago did I finally convince him to allow me to work on the layout.

I did layout and copywriting for him, and the bill outstanding just for May is $1300+/- and thats not even including the 90% completed layout which will revolutionize his traffic!

Additionally I made a mistake - In my attempt to be super nice and go out of my way for the client to display my “quality service” I started a brand new PPC campaign for him setting everything up and failed to set guidelines for how im going to charge him. Well its cost me a lot of time and I figure to setup a profitable long term campaign $1500 is reasonable as a setup fee for all the ads, keyword research etc etc… But I Didnt tell him and basically have not charged him anything. He expects and demands everything and the world from me for free

He has been hard to deal with for about 2 months now… but he became downright evil last week. He refuses to pay saying he has no money, but I know for sure he gets at least 10 sales a day, each sale being at least $100 for him.

He is lying clearly and wants to have a big bank account before he gives away anything OR just decided out of his imagination prinicpal not to pay.

Good news:
I have FULL control over his sites as I am the hoster as well as the designer :rofl:

This guy refuses to pay, I’m trying to play nice but to be honest, after months of abuse from this psycho I am just fed up. I want to play hardball. Should I try having someone intervene first or should I just take down his sites and replace it with “Account Suspended until Payment Recieved.” or something similar?

This will be a fun one guys so I suggest you come back to hear how this develops :eye:

p.s. he is my only client as I just started in this industry - and I need to pay my workers as well myself so this is critical I literally have $40 left in my bank he is over a month late paying for May… Its already July 4th

2

Sounds like a good start, but without customizing the agreement and understanding exactly what it all means you are looking for trouble. It’s not about ‘having a signed contract’ as much as it’s about ‘having a coherent and mutual agreement’ with your client. Good luck!

3

There is no signed agreement. We only worked things out verbally and I sent him an invoice for it through freshbooks.

In the future to prevent this kind of situation is there a template I can use as a basis for my design/SEO work?

found one! found a good contract!

4

The question here is what can YOU do and the answer is nothing because you don’t have a contract for the work.

Chalk it up to lessons learned, remove any unpaid work from the site (as he hasn’t paid for it), put his old site back up and move on.

5
  1. Contractually speaking, does he owe you money or not? I am only talking about a formally executed agreement here.

The original contract expanded as time went by. It was for $3000, that became $3700. Than we added different jobs, which were agreed upon. For now the only issue is with the layout charges that I was working hourly on (no contract) and the PPC campaign I setup. He is arguing about payment for May but what can he do? We verbally agreed after he rejected a retainer thinking i’m trying to screw him… I am still new in this industry so I guess lesson learned? Is there a standard contract template anyone can recommend? In the future I will ALWAYS make sure to give a contract first.

I mentioned originally he is part of a cult. We met in person and its obvious I’m religious but of course I didn’t mention anything about it. He keeps trying to ‘convert’ me to his cult and I keep turning him down! Its very annoying.

In fact this morning he just tried AGAIN! Sent me a whole email about my ego and some conspiracy I’m part of apparently. Told me to go to one of his cults websites to begin ‘enlightening’ myself…

6

Religion should be kept out of the business, always. Your customers shouldn’t know what religion you have and neither should you know and care for what religion they have, it’s non of your or their business so to speak.

If you can’t do that, only do business with people with the same religious views as yourself.

Also, Sitepoint’s forum rules forbid discussions regarding Religion and Politics for just the same reasons I believe.

7

You didn’t answer Sagewing’s question #1.
It’s hard to think anything of it, really. Do you actually have a contract? Does it include that PPC campaign?

8

Basically I am religious and his wife is anti-religious and she has been poisoning her husband that im bad and a liar and a cheat… He has been abusive and disgusting to work with, constantly accusing me of screwing him over, big ego, everything bad he accuses me… I really just wanted to complete my tasks so I can say in future projects that I increased sales despite many google changes etc… but now its a lose lose situation I think.

He owes me 1200 from May, plus a few weeks of development of a new layout and moving the code over… I am 90% complete but he cancelled it last week due to 3000% not being enough ROI on his PPC campaign I started.

I didnt charge him yet for the PPC campaign and I think because I Was trying to be nice to help him out of a rut now I cannot go back and say “oh ya that PPC campaign your profitting from? Ya I need to charge you for that…”

Also im considering shutting down his sites until he pays me up in full… Drastic move but, what do you think?

9

You said you were at a loss for words, but there are so many words above I wasn’t able to read it. It sounds like there is a lot of emotion going on.

What, EXACTLY, is the problem as of right now? I mean, disregarding all the history, all of the emotion, all of the noise, what is left?

  1. Contractually speaking, does he owe you money or not? I am only talking about a formally executed agreement here.

  2. There is no #2. This sounds like a toxic relationship and you need to exit it. If you are owed something, try to get it. If you ow him something, give it to him. Then move on and try to reflect on what really went wrong here.

10

He responded with this:

Let’s 1st get things straight. I am not the one who’s MO is anger with the use of reactive behavior. In fact it was your behavior last week that turned my wife against you as everything that she had suspected of you was confirmed. And in fact based on your unacceptably abrasive and argumentative conduct I decided to limit phone conversations with you in favor of emailing, (even though I type at less than one tenth the speed that you do).

Regarding what you say about the prevailing circumstances that have caused business to go down - now that your one sided agenda has been revealed to me, any explanation that you give me for down business trends is tainted. Certainly at this point I am not going to have any confidence in your recommendations or judgements. I don’t see your methods as being a solution to poor business trends even if it turns out that there may be an element of truth to what you say. You had your chance to demonstrate your “stuff” but instead you showed to me your true colors - (your “me first” attitude), but unlike you however, I realize that you will not see things as I do therefore I will not waste my effort explaining - your mere knowledge my conclusions should be adequate for you.

The final straw was both poor results on your PPC and the on the writing, those had nothing to do with something that google did.

Contrary to what you indicate, my intention is to pay you, I am just not able to at this time. I would suggest however that on the writing you cut that bill in half so that I pay coverage of your expense on it, (besides the $2,500 is far over priced for what was done).

Sorry about how this has ended, and I’m hoping that you will realize that I was the result not the cause and that it will do no good to continue ride a “dead horse”.

xxxxxxx

11

here is an email I just wrote him as the last ditch effort at a peaceful resolution:

I have been going over everything to try to abate your anger. This will be my final attempt at reason so please read through the entire email.

You are upset because you feel I have done a poor job and it resulted in your loss of business. You feel therefore that you are not obligated to pay me any remaining bills.

In late April Google unleashed a new Google Local system. Once this was released along with several other big changes at Google, it resulted a serious disruption for many websites. It is estimated that between 60% and 80% of traffic that formally would click on the regular google listings (where are you often found #1 now) gets diverted into one of the 7 companies listed in the Google Local 7-pack. Since you were not optimized for this, you began losing traffic. Since than you now appear in the 7 list but not #1. This has resulted in a shifting of traffic from not just you, but from everyone who has google listings around the world.

Secondly, xxxxxxx stopped his PPC campaign for you which resulted in a loss of business.

These two factors are not a result of my work. The traffic in fact has increased due to my work, proving beyond any doubt that my work has helped bring in more traffic.

The reason traffic is not converting into sales is because you went against my advice and did not give me permission to change your not working layout until recently.

This is the entire case and there is no way to increase your sales without increasing conversions and improving your visibility. By damaging our working relationship you are in fact hurting your bottom line every minute we have to delay with the layout changes. The copy created by xxxxxx and worked on by both of us has the ability to help convert visitors with the new layout which will result in a dramatic increase in sales.

There is no opinion or side here, only facts that need to be taken into consideration. I have worked honestly and often times for free to help you, and prove to you my intentions and work. Had this been 6 months ago, Googles changes would not have resulted in what happened and you would not have experienced any slowdown. 

I am left with no choice now but to pause the actual effort that will literally result in a sharp increase in sales. You have 40 interested prospects daily, 10 or so of which are converting. By delaying the layout and copy changes you are hurting your chance to turn those 30 lost leads into daily sales.

In any case, previous work which was already completed over a month ago needs to be paid. It is just not fair or correct to blackmail me and my team for work we already did but did not receive payment.

I expect someone as reasonable as you have been to understand that despite your frustration it is not righteous or correct to steal from me and my team. I suggest instead of this damaging path you are choosing, we work together as I have been trying to increase your traffic. Ask yourself, what do I have to gain by shorting you out? Long term it is in my best interest to increase your traffic and sales. Even now as I write this, while work has paused, I have been working with xxxxxx to get the most out of the PPC while he has still refused for one reason or another to bring the PPC up to former good times.

In closing:
The only solution that will result in immediate benefit for you with increased sales is to have the new strong layout and copy up and running, as well as increasing your visibility in Google. Lets look at the alternative: If you want to go and look for a different agency, I will even give you recommendations of who is good… They will take at least a few weeks to get up to par with your site. Also any company with a reputation that is based in America charges monthly fees that normally begin at $2000, of course you can hunt and try to find cheaper. Also to setup PPC with another company looking at alternatives it will cost you between $1000-$2499 setup fee. I have not yet even charged you for setting up a PPC campaign, which I must do but have been trying my best to put aside everything in order to immedietly increase your sales. When you consider this, it is not beneficial for you to do anything impulsive now that will not result in additional income. I know for sure that my efforts are as good as anyone elses and no one can pull a rabbit out of a hat and bring in 100 calls a day suddenly for you.

It serves your interests therefore to allow us to increase your sales and eventually have xxxxx put the perfected PPC campaign into place thus bringing you to a position you have never experienced in the increase of sales.

The ball is in your court now, do you decide for the immediate increase in business or bring about delays and problems no one wants…

Respectfully,
xxxxxx & Team

12

Here is what this lunatic wrote in his latest email. NOTE: he is a member of a cult, his wife is super evil and negative, and I have tried my best to be nice to him. I have suffered at least no less than 3 outbursts from him based on nothing, and after explaining and questions he realized he was wrong and apologized. This email makes me feel so sick I literally cannot read it again…

also, In total over 4 months he has paid me $5000+/- his mentioning his bank account going from 30k to “near 0” — What does that have to do with me?? He has made a lot of money in the last few months and a large part is due to the constant work I did… advise??

If we have already used up most all of the pay for click it definitely seems not to be working as it was before when I went through xxxxx directly. You had said that Monday cost me $45, so how is it that the money is almost finished. What are you taking for your cut?

As I have told you, (but as of yet have not accepted and fought me over), I am not pleased with the overall results of your work. We have to figure where to go from here. If for example $300 gets me just three days of limited work and your bills are pressing, sadly but realistically it doesn’t look as though your very hard efforts have panned out for me. As I had told you, I was out of money and didn’t plan on paying anything more. That was a week ago and presently things have changed little . Although you disagree that I should have these feelings, never the less the reality exists that I feel like a milked cow without pasture to graze.

I wish not to go through another bout with you over the same old arguments as you shout your ego driven remarks at me while only considering your own point of view, (Scientifically presented or not).

I had told you that there is no more money for you, I guess you did not take me seriously. My view is that I am now going to have to do without your SEO work for I have not gained enough benefit to justify its continuation. You can shout at me and call me names, (as ignorant as that may be), all you want, but if I don’t buy your arguments that it is all my fault for my banking account going from $30,000 at the start down to now Zero now in the middle of summer, the many years of experience that I draw from to gauge my judgments will never the less have to prevail.

The way I see it, if you want to continue on as being my SEO firm you will have to show me in results that you are worth keeping and at this point that will mean that you will not receive any or much payment till the time comes that I can see benefit. If that is not possible or sustainable for you then we will have to part company.

It saddens me a great deal to write these words for at the onset I had high hopes that you would make things better but they only have gotten worse at a rate that I have never experienced before. Can you blame me for seeing it as I do? Would you be any different if you were in my shoes? I think not.

Again, if your answers will be as they were a week ago - the same one sided, egotistical and unworthy of an xxxxxxx in behaviour, there will be no function your responses. As it is at this point now, my wife, (who is not a well person), is demanding that I discontinue my association with you saying that your recent behaviour has confirmed her initial feelings about you.

I would say that if you still wish to continue on, you will have to be ready to prove to me your worth by using your own resources and then when the times comes where I can see a benefit in continuing on with you, things can then change.

If something can not be worked out then we will have to discuss termination now.

I want to give you fair warning: If I get a similar emotionally charged response to this as as I had before before in similar discussions, I will have to delete it as soon as I recognize it for what it is.

I expect and demand from you the very same respect that I have given to you,

Hopefully,

XXXXXXX

This guy is insane… I am just lost for words…
His past record is horrible -

  • Paypal refuses to work with him, saying he has a record that leads them to believe he will rip me off and therefore they will not accept his credit card
  • he has over 14,000 outstanding debt with leads.com
  • He said he didn’t pay a previous designer due to him ‘playing around’
  • The only guy he works with hates him and says "You need thick skin to work with xxxxx…he has been delaying over a month to do some PPC stuff for him

13

Again I tried to read your reply but there were many words, little substance, much emotion. At this point I would assume that don’t have an effective, binding, mutual agreement in place and thus you owed nothing.

If you do have an executed agreement that states that you are owed money, I suggest you collect it. Otherwise this is over, most likely.