Obvious observation: if I were you, I’d wait until folks were ice-skating in hell before I’d design anything for this person again.
That’s an interesting tip, but I don’t think it would hold up legally. A contract is only a contract if both parties agree to the contract in a clear way. It’s not reasonable to say to someone, ‘if you do nothing then you agree to this contract’. They have to indicate in some way that they understand the contract, that there is some exchange of goods/services/value, and that they accept the terms.
You can take down the website if you have access of the hosting or domain.
If you do not respond to this letter within ten days of receipt, then your lack of response will be assumed to be consent to all of the terms of the contract that are outlined in this letter.
Let me explain myself further. I wasn’t saying that the letter with the above suggested clause would create an actual written contract. I agree that a written contract is always best. I always use written contracts, even for small websites.
What I meant to do with the above suggested clause and letter was create evidence of the oral agreement that the designer says exists between designer and client.
An article about oral contracts at legalzoom.com says:
Failing witness testimony or any actions that verify your handshake deal, you can always present supporting materials to strengthen your claim. For example, any correspondence between two parties is admissible in court, particularly if it is sent certified mail. Faxes, emails, letters, memos and receipts all help establish your handshake deal.
(Bold emphasis is mine.)
Also, I had a strategy beyond that. Suppose the client feels pressured by the letter and then responds in writing: “I owe you $1,000, not $1,500.” Now you have evidence that, at the very least, he owes you a thousand dollars – which is better than nothing.
But I’m not giving any advice here as a lawyer. My advice is just an intriguing idea I had.
In a perfect world, the designer gets the client to pay without any hard feelings or burned bridges. That would be my preference in the end.
George
I had a signed contract and had taken 50% deposit before I started but had a similar situation so password protected the site via the cpanel (not actually ‘removing’ it off the server). Told him we ‘had a policy’ to place this up until we received payment.
He cried poor and asked to pay it off, saying he needed to show potential investors etc etc - so gave him the benefit and login. Had it like that for 18 months with him eventually lapsing on regular payments and continually promising to make another payment so changed the login and refused to give access until he paid in full. He paid the very next day and I made the site live after it cleared.
Had it live for 6 more months and then his business closed down.
wow to me this is a hard situation to be in but m advise is to give the person a few more notification that they need to pay. let them know the action that well be taken against them if this is not done.again i say just give them a little time and to recuperate.:goof:
The responses bring up a good point: the loss of the payment altogether. I’d be inclined to try other methods first, i.e., reminder email, phone call, letter stating it will come down by this date without pay or arrangements for pay. You can send a good message of wanting to cooperate. Besides, lots of businesses and individuals are having tough money times these days. I know, you need your cash too.
If your termination date passes, you’re within your rights to pull it especially if you are providing hosting. That’s what a third-party seller would do. Good luck!
thanks for all the additional advice and guidance guys :tup: appreciated…
I’m updating as I go along, the end is in sight…and hopefully the money will be also, I have assurances…so I guess its just time to wait it out…
Well that sounds positive but if you don’t receive payment, shut it down. No message, no emails. Just shut it down. They will phone you as soon as they see that no server found error, or blank page. That’s what the electrical or phone company does and it’s effective.
I’ve done it a couple of times with late paying customers. Payment was immediate 
Hello there mizwizzy:
In determining the correct legal strategy for this particular matter, it is important to settle the applicable law. Jurisdiction is likely vital in this case. For the novice legal scholars in here, they would also require additional information to determine the loci of the contract - the place of formation. This goes to the question of: what body of law will govern the dispute and remedial measures available to the aggrieved parties? For instance, this might be an international dispute involving treaties like the CISG. These treaties and conventions set out interpretation of international contract law for goods and services.
As an ancillary matter, it would be beneficial to understand relevant personal jurisdiction (power of the court over the individuals party to the dispute). If this does become an official dispute involving court systems, it would be nice to see which court(s) has power over you or the opposing party.
If this is an internal matter (intrastate), then you would look to local law to determine the remedies available.
From what I can understand of the original post, you are seeking a “self-help” type of approach to prevent unjust enrichment. This may or may not be permitted under law, so it would be important to research this very specific issue.
This post does not constitute legal advice. You should not act or rely on any information enclosed in this posting. Samardin, LLC. | Law Office, NY & NJ Licensed
Usually the electric company or phone company employs lawyers that create water-proof contracts that foresee such remedial actions. The same can be said for real-estate companies that foreclose on properties, it is surely not unforeseen.
It doesn’t matter… You have to pay to play.
If your client isn’t paying you, it’s doubtful that they are paying a room full of lawyers to cover their backsides. There was some sort of agreement (verbal, written, etc…) that web person (a) would provide website to business person (b) for some sort of compensation. When the compensation wasn’t provided, the contract was in breach. We could debate theories of law all day but when it comes right down to it, what works in practice is more important. Turn off the lights and they will call you 
Nobody wants to play the heavy (well most people don’t) but I’ve found throughout the years that if you don’t take some sort action to reinforce your position, you will be taken advantage of and it can happen with all sorts of well meaning folks from all walks of life. Businesses for the most part won’t screw you around but smaller organizations and startups are very good at missing/forgetting payments if they don’t see any harm to themselves. I have heard the “I posted the check last night, it should be with you shortly” far to many times to take it at face value.
I used to get annoyed when it would happen, but it only seems to happen (for us) with very small clients for small amounts so I just wait until the domain name or hosting comes up for renewal. I renew it but I turn it off to the public. Then I let the client know that their website is up for renewal, that they have an outstanding amount owing and that once that is cleared up, their site will go live again.
A good policy to protect yourself is to have contracts for all the new projects you bring in and have terms of payment that includes interest for late payments. We do this in accordance to the terms of our regional law (Canadian Bills of Exchange Act). That way you can concern yourself with what you should be doing, designing and developing websites
I wonder what the law has to say about cyber-squatting in awasson’s local jurisdiction.
What works in practice only works until you end up in court and then the “debates over theories of law” end up costing people exponentially more than they expected.
It seems that the issue here is not about charging late-fee payments to scare people into paying, it is about repossessing what is essentially a product that has not yet been fully paid for.
Mizwizzy needs to figure out what law applies, and what sort of remedies are available. As I said before, you usually start the analysis be determining how and where the contract (either express or oral) was formed.
I wish Mizwizzy the best of luck.
This post does not constitute legal advice. You should not act or rely on any information enclosed in this posting. Samardin, LLC. | Law Office, NY & NJ Licensed
Contracts in my opinion, even though they of course are a must with any service related business are never what keep the delivery process or payment process in check but are best served to safeguard your position if there should be a messy situation.
Any simple clause in your service contract can permit you to remove the customers website until the final payment is received, however sometimes this creates more of a problem. If you are following a service contract, be sure to never break your own rules, this will ensure your process remains professional in the case you need to temporarily retract files.
My general rule of thumb is to simply keep leverage on the service being provided prior to implementation.
Wow Samardin… stretch things much? Accusations like that won’t win you friends.
I was actually talking about renewing hosting and paying for web services but since we’re on the subject… Cybersquating is a bit different than being the agent in securing a domain and I expect it is more costly and difficult to prove a case of cybersquating than it is to pay the bill.
I have been surrounded by lawyers all my life and I can’t imagine a lawyer suggesting they don’t pay the bill, just try to take them to court for cybersquating. Most of the lawyers I know would ask the following questions:
- Did you task so-and-so to register your domain name?
- Have you paid the bill for it?
Then they would come up with some suggestions on how to resolve it. Usually they would suggest something reasonable, like paying the bill.
- That’s quite a different scenario than registering a trademarked domain name and holding it hostage for a big payoff. Now that is cybersquating.
Actually what works in practice always works… That’s the definition of works in practice
Sure anyone can try to take anyone to court if they have the time and money, but the law up here is based on reason and the courts here don’t suffer fools errands kindly. It also helps when 3 generations of your family practice law but I suppose that is my advantage. I have had occasion to see judges in my jurisdiction dress down individuals who tried to bring frivolous cases to their courts (unrelated to web stuff but all the same interesting). It’s not pretty. Judges can get pretty angry when they feel that the court’s time is being wasted and they are particularly hard on lawyers when they should know better.
** Sorry Mizwizzy for getting dragged way off topic. I hope you get this resolved quickly so you can get on with your web business.
Disclaimer: It’s sad when you have to add a disclaimer to your posts but I suppose people can come up with all sorts or reasons to rush to court so remember,… This is the internet… Everyone has an opinion. Use your best judgment when making decisions about how to proceed and if in doubt contact a real lawyer.
It seems as though awasson has taken a rather defensive posture, but no matter… let’s continue.
As I do not know what your particular “agent” relationship is with your clientele, I can only go off what you are saying in your posts.
I used to get annoyed when it would happen, but it only seems to happen (for us) with very small clients for small amounts so I just wait until the domain name or hosting comes up for renewal. I renew it but I turn it off to the public.
Essentially, you renew a domain without prior actual authority? Perhaps you are speaking of implied agency authority, but even so it would likely have to be related to an authorized act so that the implied authority flows from actual authority. As the agent, you are held to a high standard of fiduciary duty. Maybe the principal does not want to renew a domain utilizing you as an agent. Of course, I am sure you do not hijack domains for nonpayment - you seem civil. Also, it is of no moment to me.
Actually what works in practice always works… That’s the definition of works in practice
Seems like a blanket misstatement. I already spoke about this. No need to go over it again.
There was no accusation awasson, it was my directing your attention to potential illegalities. I do not know what constitutes cyber-squatting in your jurisdiction. Friends are overrated. I was here to suggest a few things to the original poster of this thread.
I have been surrounded by lawyers all my life and I can’t imagine a lawyer suggesting they don’t pay the bill, just try to take them to court for cybersquating.
Okay?
Sure anyone can try to take anyone to court if they have the time and money, but the law up here is based on reason and the courts here don’t suffer fools errands kindly.
Since your nation’s laws are based on reason, I applaud your judiciary.
Judges can get pretty angry when they feel that the court’s time is being wasted and they are particularly hard on lawyers when they should know better.
Lawyers try their best to avoid such cases, but even so… many cases result in nominal damages and declaratory judgments. If a wrong has been done, it should be remedied and a court should hear the case with open ears.
This post does not constitute legal advice. You should not act or rely on any information enclosed in this posting. Samardin, LLC. | Law Office, NY & NJ Licensed
hey, im the queen of OT 
Thanks for all your comments guys, appreciated :tup:
It has gotten to the stage now where all updates are completed now and im just chasing around for payment, i have about 70% payment to recieve yet, so i’m just doing the old fashioned getting in their face all the time until something surfaces! I am only carrying out this approach because i believe there is payment in sight, if this belief disappears, then I will be contacting the hosting company (where i have contacts) and tell them to take it down asap. Either way there has to be one sort of ending to this project because i wont pursue it for much longer 
I believe this is probably a good start in resolving the matter. However, be mindful that if this does become messy, it is not unheard of that courts have a negative opinion of “self-help” methods such as these. The judicial system likes to interject instead of allowing people to help themselves. This probably supports the public policy of preventing undue hostilities and further complications.
This may be even more easily resolved with a simple small claims court proceeding. It all matters about the jurisdiction.
This post does not constitute legal advice. You should not act or rely on any information enclosed in this posting. Samardin, LLC. | Law Office, NY & NJ Licensed - 732.858.1529
I never publish a site online until the client has paid the bill.
Always develop the site on your own private servers, in a dev environment so they can see what it’s going to look like on their domain. Once they’re happy with the site, all the revisions have been finalised, and it’s signed off by them… I invoice them, and when they’ve paid the bill in full, I transfer it to their hosting (or if i’m hosting it for them, I transfer it to their live domain).
I’ve had the EXACT same situation you’re talking about, happen to me early on… and since then I now have my procedures set, and don’t deviate from them even for “favours”.
50% downpayment before work starts (for fixed-fee work, or a sizable deposit for hourly-based work), final payment due on sign-off of completion, and then site goes live once it’s all settled and everyone is happy.
And EVERYTHING in writing, from an original work contract outlining the terms, to a detailed spec sheet of what they can expect from me as far as my delivery times, number of revisions, ownership of the final assets, etc.
Even if they call up requesting a change, I ask nicely if they can email me what they want me to do, “so I have it in writing and don’t forget the details” (which is partially true, but it’s mostly so I have it in writing in case they argue it later).
Ordinarily I do split the charge, with regard to half upfront, half on completion and I also host it within a private server also so they can preview the content, but this was not an ordinary situation as I had already worked with this client before it was more of a good faith gesture that payment will be produced on completion.
However, this issue is now resolved for me, I put on my business head and hounded them until I received what I was due, payment has been issued now in full and all is hunky dory again 
However, that said I’ll never be doing anymore projects for this individual again - lesson learned and I believe I got lucky this time round