[quote=“tony_marston404, post:133, topic:110202”]
I don’t give a toss about those other frameworks as they are totally useless for writing enterprise applications. The only framework I use is my own, and that still runs on all versions of PHP 5 as well as PHP 4. If those other framework developers can’t do the same then perhaps they are the ones who are incompetent.[/quote]
Unfortunately the other thread is closed and I also noticed the many replies by accident, (and very late because Discourse doesn’t allow the watching of threads automatically).
What I’d like to ask to the devs reading this forum is, are you creating enterprise capable applications with any of the major frameworks out there? If yes, can you explain a little bit about the application? I know, for example, that Symfony is used by Youporn. Ok, a strange “enterprise”, but it is a very busy website and what does “enterprise capable” mean exactly anyway?
Also, would any devs out there recommend any modern framework be compatible with PHP4? I find a dev boasting his framework still works with PHP4 would be a serious reason to avoid it. Am I wrong in my thinking?
Edit: Discourse does allow automatic watching, but only for threads you started.
A similar post was raised on CodeIgniter forum asking for known large/enterprise sites. A response was that large sites prefer not to promote their frameworks in case a vulnerability is exposed and exploited before a fix is updated.
In my own opinion, if a PHP version isn’t officially supported by the PHP developers, then writing software which supports it is pointless. There’s no reason people should be running such old, potentially dangerous, versions of PHP and supporting them stops people needing to upgrade.
That said, if someone wants to use an old version of PHP they should be able to use an old version of your library/framework with the understanding that it’s no longer maintained.
I guess maybe it should be its own topic…but wouldn’t watching a category only notify me of new threads in that category? I only want automatic watching of threads I participate in. With it (and set to standard for eveyone), the activity level would rise here quickly I am sure.
I can appreciate that. But, just mentioning on this site that a framework (with no particular name) is being used and the kind of application being developed with it, wouldn’t be any kind of security compromise I would think.
Once you’ve read a thread, and/or participated in it, any further activity appears in your Unread tab, so you can see when there’s been new activity. I think you can choose to receive emails about this too, but I’ve had that turned off since the beginning, as I’d just rather see what’s been happening when I log in.
What is wrong with having a framework which is still capable of running under PHP4? You should bear in mind that as the author of an open source framework which started on PHP4 I had to handle the situation where a user who decided to switch to PHP 5 could do so without the need to use a different version of the framework or to make any code changes. The framework would detect which version of PHP was being used and automatically use the code which was relevant to that version. Since I have never removed that functionality it is still a valid claim that my code could (probably) run under PHP 4. Why is that wrong?
In this day and age if you don’t have a version of your framework that supports things like namespaces you’re just coasting. Coasting will not rival the latest and greatest on the open source market. There isn’t any reason besides laziness that modern variants of older frameworks can’t be created supporting things like namespaces. No reason at all except laziness and motivation to do better.
There’s nothing wrong with it per se, but by doing so you’re actively choosing to avoid a lot of programming tools that make your code more maintainable/extendible (autoloading, a proper OOP object model, PDO, namespaces to name just a few)
It’s essentially Amish style programming. Sure you could manual saws, pulleys, hammers and horse/carts to build a house but you’ll do it more easily, faster and with a better end-product with cranes, trucks, circular saws and modern tools/materials.
Absolutely!!! But this question is just too vague… What is considered ‘major frameworks’? I’m sure we’ll get 100 different answers. What I’m saying is that there are enterprise proven frameworks. Only a fool would say ‘I don’t give a toss about those other frameworks’. As I tried to convinced them many times, it’s just a waste of time. I can give my speculation on why they think that way but I’ll just leave as be. The answer is ‘Yes’.
But I don’t need autoloading, a “proper” object model (whatever that is), PDO or namespaces. My code did what it needed to do before they existed, so why should I waste my time making it do exactly the same thing but differently?
I do certain things because I can. I don’t do other things because I don’t have to.
The primary function of a software developer is to develop cost-effective software for the paying customer, and not to impress other developers with the cleverness or complexity of their code. Once I have written a piece of code which solves a problem for a customer I simply stop working on that piece of code and move on to the next problem.
Writing code that the customer is willing to pay for is how I earn my living. Writing code to impress other developers will always be a waste of time as one of them will always say “that’s not the way I would have done it”.
My definition of major frameworks would be ones that can be used to support the building of a large complicated application, or even a number of large complicated applications, in a measurably shorter period of time, than if you had to do all the programming from scratch. The supporting modules you can add to it also count towards “major”. In other words, one might say that even micro frameworks could fit that definition, but with them, you’d be doing a lot more work, so they actually don’t fit my “major” framework category.
The code is changing Tony, because the PHP dev community isn’t a group of devs all hiding under their shells mother henning their code. They are now sharing tons and tons of code with each other, so they can support each other to be more productive and even better developers. To do this though, the code has to be fashioned to the (and I know you don’t like the term) “best practices” of modern PHP development.
If you don’t want to be a part of that paradigm, then don’t be. But, please don’t hack others who do or try to argue against it. You just look foolish when you do try and I’d rather you just stay in your own little world and be the passionate programmer you are and stay out of the way of progress. Because, all the arguments you bring to the table have nothing to do with PHP’s progress as a great web development language and in some cases, it is contrary, and only in essence, defends your lack of willingness to cope with and understand why there are these changes for the sake of progress. Your position, your paradigm on the whole situation, just saps other people’s time and energy, especially Tom’s, (who I admire a lot for his incredible patience and support here in the community.)
The romans built houses before cranes, trucks, concrete and bricks existed. Those houses did what they needed to do. Is it a waste of time to build modern houses out of bricks concrete and use cranes and trucks to transport the materials? Using modern teqhniques you get sturdier houses that are better to live in (Flat walls, right angles, better insulated, sturdier and can be built bigger and with less limit on the design due to structural reasons). You’re making an appeal to tradition. This is simply not a reason not to use modern tools.
You go and make your house out of mud and sticks while the rest of us enjoy glass windows, central heating and running water.