2.1 or 3.0?


So I’m hiring someone to do website coding for me & I don’t know what the norm is now. I read somewhere that some people don’t want to switch to 3.0, so when they give me sites they have coded, should I be expecting 2.1 or 3.0 or a combination of both?



If you mean CSS3, then it’s only in draft form at the moment, meaning it’s got a long way to go before being ready. And 3 is just an extension of 2, so 2 will never be out of date, as such. There are some little bits of 3 that are being used now—such as rounded corners—but they don’t work in all browsers, so you have to live with a slightly different look from browser to browser (unless some kind of JavaScript fix is used).

k, thanks


BTW, the same applies to HTML5 (more so, indeed) … so also beware if someone tries to seduce you with too much of that. :slight_smile:

I would classify HTML5 as a tad bit more unstable than CSS3. This said because if an HTML5 tag doesn’t work, then it will break. But if a CSS3 property such as, say, rounded corners isn’t supported, there’ll be a straight corner as normal.

I would ask the designer/developer for a mix of 2.1 and 3.0.


I’d put CSS3 as more unstable. HTML5 is only unstable for IE, although that’s known due to IE8 and below not supporting HTML5. Markup generally never has an issue with stability. What’s been unstable for you in HTML5 TehYoyo?

In IE, if it sees an HTML5 element (or element it doesn’t recognize) it mimics what you describe happens to CSS, and it ignores it.

I mean, your point is valid. I say that CSS3 is stable because if it doesn’t work, then it just makes a normal element. If the transition effect on hover doesn’t work, then it just skips straight to the end result - which is what we want the user to see, even if there’s no “cool” transition. We don’t have to create fallbacks, etc. that take the place for unsupporting browsers. With HTML5, if we don’t use the JavaScript shiv or the user doesn’t enable JS in their browser or blocks it from working in IE, then the layout doesn’t necessarily break, but it doesn’t work as we want. Plain and simple. Or we provide fallbacks that take place.


So I have a couple of additional questions…

  1. In my hiring ad I say I’m looking for W4C valid & semantic sites. That’s correct how I’m phrasing it, right?
  2. What would you say if a so called “website coder” told you the reason his sites aren’t valid is b/c the client didn’t ask for it?



No, not quite right. The W4C is currently only in draft mode, and won’t truly exist for many years … though some people who love to be cutting edge are pretending there is one. :slight_smile:

Actually, I’m joking. The organization you are referring to is the W3C. What you are looking for is a web designer who understands and cares about valid and semantic code.

What would you say if a so called “website coder” told you the reason his sites aren’t valid is b/c the client didn’t ask for it?

Well, image a car mechanic standing before a judge, saying—“Well, your Honor, I didn’t screw his wheel nuts on because he didn’t ask me to, so it’s not my fault he’s dead.”

Just because someone doesn’t ask you to do your job properly is not an excuse not to do it. :slight_smile:

I wouldn’t go all out asking for this one. With CSS, a lot of times, it’s impossible to have a valid site due to vendor extensions or any IE specific hacks.

  1. What would you say if a so called “website coder” told you the reason his sites aren’t valid is b/c the client didn’t ask for it?



I’d say it’s time to find a new coder. It’s not hard to keep a website valid, and even if asked, it should take ~5 minutes to fix any and all errors.

Sorry for the delay.

Well these guys aren’t even bothering to tell me what they wrote it in & someone gave me a 3.0 site which didn’t validate in the validator & so then I got really confused. I didn’t even know there were 2 validators LOL

And he’s telling me 3 is out.


Your HTML documents should be valid, unless your developer/designer uses html5. The latter is still in draft modus, so it won’t validate either as it’s not the current standard recommendation.

If your developer/designer uses CSS3, your stylesheet will NOT validate because CSS3 is not yet a standard either (draft). It’s progressive and most CSS3 features don’t work yet. A developer/designer can, however, take advantage of some CSS3 features that are implemented in some browsers (not all). This will instantly invalidate the stylesheet, however, which isn’t a big deal, really.

CSS3 is just an extension of CSS2.1, has a few more properties to choose from, but it’s still CSS and CSS3 pages do not exist, only stylesheets that utilize CSS3 features along with current standards (CSS2.1 is the current standard).

Yeh I was like… WTH LOL, where did that come from. I must have been REALLY tired when I wrote that, & look at that, I even guessed the next era of writing proper code LMAO. Thanks for that, I needed that laugh. :slight_smile:

I figured someone would say what I was thinking (it’s not my fault), I just thought I’d ask b/c they all say the customer wants the sites done fast.

I had to laugh even more when you used the “he didn’t ask me to” bit b/c here where I’m living now in Latin America, the locals in many countries use this as their favorite line along with the “it’s not my fault.”

I’m never quite sure if this is laziness or just sheer stupidity (I’m positive it’s more the latter) & I’m beginning to see a pattern that many foreigners in many countries think this way as I have hired many who think this way & they aren’t anywhere near LA.



Yes I heard this one too, the plugins on WP did it.

I’ll have to disagree.

I’ve had soooo many people work on my site over the years, that I’m now finding out the CSS file is sooo bad, no one can go in & fix anything. It pisses me off, as I hired each person based on them telling me they knew how to write clean valid code.

I’ll repeat what I’ve been saying for years now. Someone needs to start a screening service to screen both website coders & programmers re: their code.

Us companies (even large ones) don’t know a thing about code & are often duped into hiring people just based on their sales pitches, not their actual skill.

Then you normally don’t find out there is a problem until years later when the NEXT website coder or programmer tells you there’s a problem.


I find that if someone asks me for a lot of updates on a site that I built myself, the CSS can end up a mess. This happened on one site where the client kept asking for radically different designs over time—menus moving all over the place, individual page layouts changing and so on. Nowadays, I wouldn’t work that way. I’d say—You want a new design, we start from scratch.

Yes, Mich a lot of them are cowboys for certain with smooth talk. To be brutally honest I wouldn’t go anywhere near some with a bargepole regarding their coding skills. HTML5 is pretty much a large non normative joke at the moment and mostly pointless as far as markup goes.

You can actually write valid code and it be poor as far as semantics are concerned. Though if those potential candidates could not even tell you what standards they were working with it’s a sure sign they might be lacking in grey matter.

The right answer would have been to say that the sites don’t validate but for valid reasons. (e.g. vendor extensions and ie hacks etc which cater for known deficiencies but don’t compromise the layout).

Validation is not a badge to be worn but a means to an end. Just because a site doesn’t validate doesn’t mean that the coder hasn’t taking a lot of care with it. On the other hand someone who takes shortcuts with code just because they don’t think the client will know should be avoided.

Nope, never asked for a new design, just fixes or changes to the pages.

Yes, but clients will never know whether this is the case, b/c we aren’t website coders.


Well I don’t think they think anyone is going to check their site for validation. I have yet to see one coder tell me what version of html/CSS they coded the sites with & some even give me sites that are down LOL