SitePoint.com

Brocberry · Nov 8, 2009, 07:11

For both of my two main target keywords, I have jumped to near the top of the listing.

My Google Rankings two weeks ago:
59th for a worldwide search. Today I'm third.
33rd for a UK search. Today I'm second.

(24th on Bing for a UK search but I never recorded where I was on their pages).

I changed all the markup to valid xhtml (style sheets aren't valid). I got rid of javascript for menu mouseovers and instead used an ordered list with css to give feedback.

I added a few more testimonials to the testimonials-page (one of only seven content pages), which probably added about 15-20% to the total text on the site.

I completely got rid of two pages dedicated to outbound links - although I need to take a look at those and perhaps put a few links back once I've taken a look if some were reciprocal arrangements. These two links pages weren't directly linked by my home page, they were on a third-tier... home page > page in main menu > links page.

And, for what it's worth, I changed the address to hcard format.

So I'm interested in what might have had the most effect. Although I'm a little puzzled because the listing in google still uses the the old page title followed by the old meta description, and I would have thought that if the site had been re-indexed that the new page title and meta information would have been used?

corbyboy · Nov 8, 2009, 07:36

It's difficult to say exactly what had the most benefit since there are so many variables.

Do you think that your javascript menu may have been preventing the spiders from accessing your other pages?
Keeping your content fresh is definitely a good plan. If you have a testimonials page you should keep adding new content as often as you can.

You might even find it had nothing to do with the content changes. Maybe quite a few sites have started linking to you since Google last crawled.

Brocberry · Nov 8, 2009, 08:54

I've just seen that my old pages had been indexed and also that my new site has been, too. A few minutes ago I added some meta-verification code to the site so that I could use google's webmaster tools...

and it shows me that google had indexed all of my old pages because there's a warning that there are several pages with duplicate meta descriptions, and some of the pages it lists as having duplicated data are for urls that I didn't use this time round.

In total, it shows ten old pages as having duplicate meta descriptions, some of them no-longer-used urls and some urls common to both old and new site designs.

It also lists two of the new urls as having duplicate meta data - these urls are unique to the new design.

So it did index all my old pages and it has indexed my new ones.

In fact, playing with webtools a little more, I can see that over the last 90 days google crawled an average of two of my pages a day.

c2uk · Nov 8, 2009, 09:07

so it probably was down to the new urls containing the keywords? because anything else you did, shouldn't have much of an impact and urls have (unless as corbyboy suggest, you got some quality backlinks in the meantime) - and do some 301 redirect from your old to your new pages.

Brocberry · Nov 8, 2009, 09:24

The urls don't contain any new keywords, I've just changed some... so form.htm is now contact.html, and some pages have been deleted. For example, there was a misc.htm which was a page of outbound links, and that page is no longer used at all. The main pages, those with keywords in the urls, are all the same except that .htm is now .html, which is a daft thing to do with hindsight... although there are no inbound links except to the index page.

Although while there are no new url keywords, I did change the menu-text for the home page from 'Home' to 'Keyword One' s. And while I have jumped for keyword one, I've also had a big bump for another keyword (though not quite so dramatic... up from 12 to 4).

I don't know how to do a 301 redirect, so I'll look into it, thanks.

johnch · Nov 8, 2009, 10:30

Well, its really hard to point the most effective one, since seo in the first place is all about theories and observation cause search engine wouldn't really dare announcing exactly how their algo system works and what exactly is most relevant. Nice to hear your great results by the way,.. =)

Brocberry · Nov 8, 2009, 10:35

Quick correction to off-topic url suffixs
(ideally, I'd like to edit the old post)
I stated that the old pages were .htm, they weren't, nothing has changed, they were .html and still are (and perhaps a change from .htm to .html wouldn't have been a problem anyway, I don't know)

In summary, most URLs are the same and the ones that have changed have changed from having no keywords in the urls to still having no keywords in the urls.

The one url issue that may have some bearing is the one I mentioned earlier, which is that the outbound links pages have been deleted altogether.

Nov 8, 2009, 07:11	#1
Brocberry SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England Posts: 39	New Google ranking: 59th to 3rd after my mark-up makeover? For both of my two main target keywords, I have jumped to near the top of the listing. My Google Rankings two weeks ago: 59th for a worldwide search. Today I'm third. 33rd for a UK search. Today I'm second. (24th on Bing for a UK search but I never recorded where I was on their pages). I changed all the markup to valid xhtml (style sheets aren't valid). I got rid of javascript for menu mouseovers and instead used an ordered list with css to give feedback. I added a few more testimonials to the testimonials-page (one of only seven content pages), which probably added about 15-20% to the total text on the site. I completely got rid of two pages dedicated to outbound links - although I need to take a look at those and perhaps put a few links back once I've taken a look if some were reciprocal arrangements. These two links pages weren't directly linked by my home page, they were on a third-tier... home page > page in main menu > links page. And, for what it's worth, I changed the address to hcard format. So I'm interested in what might have had the most effect. Although I'm a little puzzled because the listing in google still uses the the old page title followed by the old meta description, and I would have thought that if the site had been re-indexed that the new page title and meta information would have been used?

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Nov 8, 2009, 07:36	#2
corbyboy SitePoint Evangelist Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 585	It's difficult to say exactly what had the most benefit since there are so many variables. Do you think that your javascript menu may have been preventing the spiders from accessing your other pages? Keeping your content fresh is definitely a good plan. If you have a testimonials page you should keep adding new content as often as you can. You might even find it had nothing to do with the content changes. Maybe quite a few sites have started linking to you since Google last crawled.

Nov 8, 2009, 08:54	#3
Brocberry SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England Posts: 39	I've just seen that my old pages had been indexed and also that my new site has been, too. A few minutes ago I added some meta-verification code to the site so that I could use google's webmaster tools... and it shows me that google had indexed all of my old pages because there's a warning that there are several pages with duplicate meta descriptions, and some of the pages it lists as having duplicated data are for urls that I didn't use this time round. In total, it shows ten old pages as having duplicate meta descriptions, some of them no-longer-used urls and some urls common to both old and new site designs. It also lists two of the new urls as having duplicate meta data - these urls are unique to the new design. So it did index all my old pages and it has indexed my new ones. In fact, playing with webtools a little more, I can see that over the last 90 days google crawled an average of two of my pages a day.

Nov 8, 2009, 09:07	#4
c2uk :mad: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,315	so it probably was down to the new urls containing the keywords? because anything else you did, shouldn't have much of an impact and urls have (unless as corbyboy suggest, you got some quality backlinks in the meantime) - and do some 301 redirect from your old to your new pages.

Nov 8, 2009, 09:24	#5
Brocberry SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England Posts: 39	The urls don't contain any new keywords, I've just changed some... so form.htm is now contact.html, and some pages have been deleted. For example, there was a misc.htm which was a page of outbound links, and that page is no longer used at all. The main pages, those with keywords in the urls, are all the same except that .htm is now .html, which is a daft thing to do with hindsight... although there are no inbound links except to the index page. Although while there are no new url keywords, I did change the menu-text for the home page from 'Home' to 'Keyword One' s. And while I have jumped for keyword one, I've also had a big bump for another keyword (though not quite so dramatic... up from 12 to 4). I don't know how to do a 301 redirect, so I'll look into it, thanks.

Nov 8, 2009, 10:30	#6
johnch SitePoint Addict Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 253	Well, its really hard to point the most effective one, since seo in the first place is all about theories and observation cause search engine wouldn't really dare announcing exactly how their algo system works and what exactly is most relevant. Nice to hear your great results by the way,.. =)

Nov 8, 2009, 10:35	#7
Brocberry SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England Posts: 39	Quick correction to off-topic url suffixs (ideally, I'd like to edit the old post) I stated that the old pages were .htm, they weren't, nothing has changed, they were .html and still are (and perhaps a change from .htm to .html wouldn't have been a problem anyway, I don't know) In summary, most URLs are the same and the ones that have changed have changed from having no keywords in the urls to still having no keywords in the urls. The one url issue that may have some bearing is the one I mentioned earlier, which is that the outbound links pages have been deleted altogether.