SitePoint.com

DrQuincy · Jun 2, 2009, 00:39

Do you bother competing with other companies? I've decided, generally speaking, it's a waste of time for me.

When a company says we're seeing another couple of companies generally I find I'm wasting my time. Such people always do it on price only and I end up wasting my time as I'm not cheap. I find when tendering for these sort of jobs it just goes to the 'lowest bidder' and some cowboy gets it. Let's say my rate is £300 per day once you have met with them, done the quote, etc you can easily be a day or so down. Now if it's a £10k job then great but it's pointless if I know I won't get it.

Most of my work comes from referrals or from a local reputation, or when people genuinely like the style of my design and in such cases I get what I think is a fair price and they don't bother going elsewhere.

People are so short-sighted - especially in a recession - and everything is done on cost, not ROI.

I'm just steering well clear of anyone moaning about price as for me, they're just time wasters.

Do you agree of disagree? I'm interested to know your thoughts.

Hyperbolik · Jun 2, 2009, 00:55

I completely agree. I used to crawl Elance and Guru for jobs but it only proved to be an effort in frustration. When I would get a job (and bid much less than I normally would have) the client wanted everything under the sun for a fire-sale price. Ended up being a complete waste of time.

My clients work with me because we have an on-going relationship and we trust each other. They can just pick up the telephone or shoot me an email and we're ready to get to work without all of the setup and learning process.

DrQuincy · Jun 2, 2009, 03:23

Yes, I've used those lead gen sites before and only ever got one job from it because the client wanted someone local and by sheer luck I lived 3 miles from him.

I like the pricing page on your website and although it does contain some actual figures you aren't committing to anything. I've put something similar on my blog to send people to.

amf45 · Jun 2, 2009, 06:05

Whether I know it or not, my company competes for EVERY client we land. We are competing against other companies, against the client's mentally generated "ideal" consulting firm, against the problems the client had with their last technology partners.

We never bother to compete on price. That's a sucker's game for people who can't explain why and how they provide value to a business.

And as you can tell from my site, I'm all about creating relationships with local clients, just because those are the ones that will pay you the best and stick with you for the longest time.

Proudirish.com · Jun 2, 2009, 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrQuincy

...When a company says we're seeing another couple of companies generally I find I'm wasting my time....

I'm surprised at that! Surely a company, who is not familiar with web design, would be acting irresponsibly if they entered into a £10K development contract with the first supplier they spoke to?

I agree, that it would be short sighted of them to base their decision on price alone. But I would have thought that most companies with a 10K budget for website development would have enough business experience not to decide on price alone.

Ravedesigns · Jun 25, 2009, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by amf45

We never bother to compete on price. That's a sucker's game for people who can't explain why and how they provide value to a business.

Very well said!

All things being equal, people will naturally choose to pay as little as possible unless you can differentiate yourself from your competition and give them a good reason to pay more.

Without a good USP (Unique Selling Proposition) like better quality, service or producing a website that will actually make a business more money - price is really all that's left and you can't blame someone for wanting to save money.

Steve

DrQuincy · Jun 25, 2009, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravedesigns

Without a good USP (Unique Selling Proposition) like better quality, service or producing a website that will actually make a business more money - price is really all that's left and you can't blame someone for wanting to save money.

That is so true.

I always ask them, why do you want a website that will ultimately cost you? A £100 website that makes £50 is more expensive than a £50,000 that makes £1,000,000.

Some people can never see things beyond price; they can't - and never will be able to - see value (99% of finance directors, for example). And it is these short-sighted people I cannot stand to deal with. Going back to my OP, when you are up against other firms and you're dealing with a company where a handful of people will vote on who gets the job, the chances of them all seeing the value of a site and not the price are so slim it's not worth wasting your time.

Gradualist · Jun 27, 2009, 05:33

I'm so glad to hear this being discussed because I have just been thinking of writing a blogpost about this myself. I recently had to turn down the opportunity to submit a proposal for a website redesign project because (thankfully) some other work came in at the last minute which meant I wouldn't be able to meet the suggested deadline. Of course I could have tried to persuade them to consider us and shifting their deadline, but to be honest, I just didn't have the time to write a proposal anyway. And ultimately, knowing I was competing against other companies was a big factor letting go of that opportunity.

When I think about most of my clients, I have not had to compete in a pitch process to get them - there has been a recommendation first.

As well as the reasons that have already been discussed here, I think another argument against small businesses pitching or competiting for work is that it ultimately makes our costs higher. So it is in the client's favour that we do not pitch for work, as those days of our time have to be paid for somehow, so that will raise the cost for the projects we actually do take on.

I am now planning to avoid competing at all costs: when I do get approached by a potential client that appears to be looking to compare quotes, I will speak to them and explain our approach. By gaining their trust early on, I hope that I might persuade them against requesting a number of companies to all put in a few days of work to pitch, but instead recommend that they informally compare these companies by speaking to them all. It seems to me that in the end, we choose to work with people we like - and since my approach to website design is that it is very much a collaborative process - it is important that we get along. I want to be sure I like the client, and I need this feeling to be mutal in order that the project is a success.

mobyme · Jun 27, 2009, 11:11

At £300.00 a day you are not even remotely expensive. Only a very small minority buy on price; if they didn't we would all be living in council houses and driving Ladas; the vast majority buy based on trust, peace of mind and fear of loss.
The fact that most of your business comes from people who are local to you suggests that you have a good reputation but it is not coming across in your written quotes.
You have to get across to clients that they are not buying any old site; they are buying a DRQuincy site.
I have banged on before about the lack of salesmanship practised by web developers who then wonder why they are not winning business.
Go back to the drawing board and come up with a written presentation that gives clients that warm fuzzy feeling that you are the right people to be doing business with.

Jun 2, 2009, 00:39	#1
DrQuincy SitePoint Addict Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 266	Do you bother competing with other companies? Do you bother competing with other companies? I've decided, generally speaking, it's a waste of time for me. When a company says we're seeing another couple of companies generally I find I'm wasting my time. Such people always do it on price only and I end up wasting my time as I'm not cheap. I find when tendering for these sort of jobs it just goes to the 'lowest bidder' and some cowboy gets it. Let's say my rate is £300 per day once you have met with them, done the quote, etc you can easily be a day or so down. Now if it's a £10k job then great but it's pointless if I know I won't get it. Most of my work comes from referrals or from a local reputation, or when people genuinely like the style of my design and in such cases I get what I think is a fair price and they don't bother going elsewhere. People are so short-sighted - especially in a recession - and everything is done on cost, not ROI. I'm just steering well clear of anyone moaning about price as for me, they're just time wasters. Do you agree of disagree? I'm interested to know your thoughts.

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Jun 2, 2009, 00:55	#2
Hyperbolik @JeffWalden Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,103	I completely agree. I used to crawl Elance and Guru for jobs but it only proved to be an effort in frustration. When I would get a job (and bid much less than I normally would have) the client wanted everything under the sun for a fire-sale price. Ended up being a complete waste of time. My clients work with me because we have an on-going relationship and we trust each other. They can just pick up the telephone or shoot me an email and we're ready to get to work without all of the setup and learning process.

Jun 2, 2009, 03:23	#3
DrQuincy SitePoint Addict Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 266	Yes, I've used those lead gen sites before and only ever got one job from it because the client wanted someone local and by sheer luck I lived 3 miles from him. I like the pricing page on your website and although it does contain some actual figures you aren't committing to anything. I've put something similar on my blog to send people to.

Jun 2, 2009, 06:05	#4
amf45 Serial Entrepreneur Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 497	Whether I know it or not, my company competes for EVERY client we land. We are competing against other companies, against the client's mentally generated "ideal" consulting firm, against the problems the client had with their last technology partners. We never bother to compete on price. That's a sucker's game for people who can't explain why and how they provide value to a business. And as you can tell from my site, I'm all about creating relationships with local clients, just because those are the ones that will pay you the best and stick with you for the longest time.

Jun 27, 2009, 05:33	#8
Gradualist SitePoint Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 1	I'm so glad to hear this being discussed because I have just been thinking of writing a blogpost about this myself. I recently had to turn down the opportunity to submit a proposal for a website redesign project because (thankfully) some other work came in at the last minute which meant I wouldn't be able to meet the suggested deadline. Of course I could have tried to persuade them to consider us and shifting their deadline, but to be honest, I just didn't have the time to write a proposal anyway. And ultimately, knowing I was competing against other companies was a big factor letting go of that opportunity. When I think about most of my clients, I have not had to compete in a pitch process to get them - there has been a recommendation first. As well as the reasons that have already been discussed here, I think another argument against small businesses pitching or competiting for work is that it ultimately makes our costs higher. So it is in the client's favour that we do not pitch for work, as those days of our time have to be paid for somehow, so that will raise the cost for the projects we actually do take on. I am now planning to avoid competing at all costs: when I do get approached by a potential client that appears to be looking to compare quotes, I will speak to them and explain our approach. By gaining their trust early on, I hope that I might persuade them against requesting a number of companies to all put in a few days of work to pitch, but instead recommend that they informally compare these companies by speaking to them all. It seems to me that in the end, we choose to work with people we like - and since my approach to website design is that it is very much a collaborative process - it is important that we get along. I want to be sure I like the client, and I need this feeling to be mutal in order that the project is a success.

Jun 27, 2009, 11:11	#9
mobyme I hate Spammers Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sunny Snowdonia Posts: 667	At £300.00 a day you are not even remotely expensive. Only a very small minority buy on price; if they didn't we would all be living in council houses and driving Ladas; the vast majority buy based on trust, peace of mind and fear of loss. The fact that most of your business comes from people who are local to you suggests that you have a good reputation but it is not coming across in your written quotes. You have to get across to clients that they are not buying any old site; they are buying a DRQuincy site. I have banged on before about the lack of salesmanship practised by web developers who then wonder why they are not winning business. Go back to the drawing board and come up with a written presentation that gives clients that warm fuzzy feeling that you are the right people to be doing business with.