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Rotwang · May 26, 2007, 10:29

If I code a site for someone, and then they hire someone else to do "SEO", what is that person doing? I've never understood.

I mean, if I've made the site search engine friendly (hyphens instead of _, avoid redundant content, meaningful urls, etc etc), and submitted it to the major search sites, than what else is "SEO work"? Are they just essentially catching whatever I missed in the SEO Faq sticky?

slayerment · May 26, 2007, 11:50

It depends, in most cases they aren't doing anything. If they were they wouldn't be doing their "effective" techniques on someone else's site - they'd be doing it on their own sites.

maricar · Jun 7, 2007, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayerment

It depends, in most cases they aren't doing anything. If they were they wouldn't be doing their "effective" techniques on someone else's site - they'd be doing it on their own sites.

not doing anything are strong words of accusation. Being an SEO myself, i dare say i do a lot more work than the owner of the site. i make sure that you stay on top of your competitors and do all the things you got tired of doing. I make sure that SE's crawl your site and take all necessary steps to prevent your site from going under and i make sure that your site is doing well and earn you lots of cash

Rotwang · Jun 8, 2007, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by maricar

not doing anything are strong words of accusation. Being an SEO myself, i dare say i do a lot more work than the owner of the site. i make sure that you stay on top of your competitors and do all the things you got tired of doing. I make sure that SE's crawl your site and take all necessary steps to prevent your site from going under and i make sure that your site is doing well and earn you lots of cash

How do you accomplish those things?

dvduval · May 26, 2007, 11:54

Well, you are starting off great by asking, and you should request a full disclosure of their "techniques", because some can get you in trouble.

I always believe in is directory submissions and optimization of title tags on the site.

ArdRigh · May 26, 2007, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotwang

If I code a site for someone, and then they hire someone else to do "SEO", what is that person doing? I've never understood.

I mean, if I've made the site search engine friendly (hyphens instead of _, avoid redundant content, meaningful urls, etc etc), and submitted it to the major search sites, than what else is "SEO work"? Are they just essentially catching whatever I missed in the SEO Faq sticky?

Search engine optimization has a lot of factors. But basically, there are two main division in SEO, the off-page and the on-page optimization. The work that you've done,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotwang

(I mean, if I've made the site search engine friendly (hyphens instead of _, avoid redundant content, meaningful urls, etc etc), and submitted it to the major search sites,)

is just a minute part of SEO. SEO is not purely a scientific approach of producing results. It is a mixture of art and science, unlike programmers and developers that basically use the scientific approach of solving problems. If you search the net about SEO, you will see the vastness of this field.

Rotwang · May 26, 2007, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdRigh

Search engine optimization has a lot of factors. But basically, there are two main division in SEO, the off-page and the on-page optimization. The work that you've done,

is just a minute part of SEO. SEO is not purely a scientific approach of producing results. It is a mixture of art and science, unlike programmers and developers that basically use the scientific approach of solving problems. If you search the net about SEO, you will see the vastness of this field.

The question was "what exactly is an SEO doing?"

ArdRigh · May 26, 2007, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotwang

The question was "what exactly is an SEO doing?"

Can you please expound the intention of your question? Or do you mean a detailed answer regarding how an SEO work?

HAWK · May 27, 2007, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotwang

The question was "what exactly is an SEO doing?"

Keyword research, on page optimisation of selected key words/phrases, directory submission, soliciting for backlinks... the list goes on.

dvduval · May 27, 2007, 07:31

Well, if I am the buyer of SEO services, I want to know exactly what they are doing. If they can't explain it clearly, I'm not buying. That was my point.

Zygoma · Jun 3, 2007, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvduval

Well, if I am the buyer of SEO services, I want to know exactly what they are doing. If they can't explain it clearly, I'm not buying. That was my point.

I totally empathise with the frustartion you might be experiencing with dealling with so called SEO specialists who talk smoke and mirrors. We've recently said goodbye to an SEO specialist due to their inability to articulate what the hell they were doing for £1, 500 pounds a month.

Seo specialists need to give their clients tangible measurements to demonstrate their mystical work does have an effect. My suspicion is alot of agencies are submitting clients sites to directories that few people look at, write a press release every so often to obsure sources and give you tips on changinging HTML tags and boom shankah that will be £1500 please per month!

I think the days where SEO specialists hoodwink clients will soon be over.

stymiee · Jun 3, 2007, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zygoma

I think the days where SEO specialists hoodwink clients will soon be over.

I doubt that. People still get ripped off getting websites and that's more tangible then SEO. And since people are so clueless as to what SEO is and what realisitic expectations are I see no end to people getting fooled.

RegDCP · Jun 8, 2007, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvduval

Well, if I am the buyer of SEO services, I want to know exactly what they are doing. If they can't explain it clearly, I'm not buying. That was my point.

I do not know what other SEOs are doing but this is the procedure I follow:

Develop and research the keywords
Ensure the site's navigation is SEO friendly
Develop title and meta tags based on the page's keywords
Write, format, and place appropriate content in the body of the page
Monitor SERPS, tweaking if necessary
Work with client to develop IBLs

felgall · May 27, 2007, 13:56

If they were to explain exactly gow they work then you could do it for yourself instead of having them do it for you.

Exactly what they will do probably varies from one to another with some trying to do something that is effective and otherb being a complete waste of money.

Your best choice is to arrange things where you have a specific result that you want them to achieve such as certain pages in the top 20 for specific phrases in specified search engines for a specified period of time. That then gives both parties specific results that are to be achieved and you know exactly what you are getting regardless of exactly how they achieve it.

tomovuk · May 27, 2007, 14:28

Seo person is someone that does all the hard work for you and tries to stay on top of the game. Are you calling Bruce Clay a lier?

pixelsoul · May 30, 2007, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomovuk

Seo person is someone that does all the hard work for you and tries to stay on top of the game. Are you calling Bruce Clay a lier?

I wouldn't trust a guy who does SEO for you who uses a flash site withouth it embedded with javascript replacing a html menu

Who the hell are search engine's going to spider that

tomovuk · May 30, 2007, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelsoul

I wouldn't trust a guy who does SEO for you who uses a flash site withouth it embedded with javascript replacing a html menu

Who the hell are search engine's going to spider that

SEO game went beyond flash menus and optimizing navigational links. Bruce clay realized that long time ago and made great content that people would link to. That is the core of SEO. The great valuable content that people love to link to. His on-page links are directed perfectly even thou his main menu is flash. It is much easier for him to direct the search engine crawler with flash navigation.

Search Google for: search engine optimization

After Wikipedia (who shouldn't be there), seochat (should be there) and Google comes Bruce Clay.

stymiee · May 30, 2007, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomovuk

SEO game went beyond flash menus and optimizing navigational links. Bruce clay realized that long time ago and made great content that people would link to. That is the core of SEO. The great valuable content that people love to link to. His on-page links are directed perfectly even thou his main menu is flash. It is much easier for him to direct the search engine crawler with flash navigation.

Search Google for: search engine optimization

After Wikipedia (who shouldn't be there), seochat (should be there) and Google comes Bruce Clay.

Is that because of good SEO? Or good marketing?

pollacks · Jun 7, 2007, 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomovuk

Seo person is someone that does all the hard work for you and tries to stay on top of the game. Are you calling Bruce Clay a lier?

Definitely... visit this site http://www.bruceclay.com Hope this site will help you...

francesca_l0uise · May 28, 2007, 01:08

search engine optimization basically deals on on and off page optimization.
One of your responsibility is to boost the traffic of your site.

Shyflower · May 28, 2007, 05:49

On page: Check your code and clean it up where necessary. Check you navigation structure to ensure that it's both user and SE friendly. Check your content to make sure that weighted factors are properly used and that your page content is relevant to the SE terms you want to target for that page.

Off page: Help you find good backlinks to boost your pr and check existing backlinks to make sure those sites are still active, are using the text links you prefer and linking relevant pages on your site. (you have no control over what pages other sites link to, but if your backlinks aren't satisfactory, you need more of them and better, so in this respect a SEO pro prioritizes where to expend your link-seeking energies ). Also, submit to directories and social networking/bookmark sites on your behalf.

simsim · May 30, 2007, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyflower

Check you navigation structure to ensure that it's both user and SE friendly.

How navigation structure can be optimized for Search Engines? I only know of using semantic markup (unordered lists) & machine-readable content (text links instead of images for anchors).

Shyflower · May 30, 2007, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by simsim

How navigation structure can be optimized for Search Engines? I only know of using semantic markup (unordered lists) & machine-readable content (text links instead of images for anchors).

Even if you have a site map where all links to all content are correct, an error in navigation on an internal page makes the site less user-friendly and therefore less SE friendly. This is especially true for main navigation links that resolve to pages that contain breadcrumbs which may not be displayed in the main navigation as well as breadcrumb links that don't resolve correctly.

If you are doing SEO and not checking internal links, IMO, you are not completing the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeCop

Do you seriously expect an SEO to detail exactly what they do in a public forum? Most won't even tell the client what they do, at least without an NDA.

If you're dubious over an SEO's ability, the proof is in the proverbial pudding. Ask for examples of their work. If they can't provide that, stay away.

While clients should always check references, why wouldn't an SEO pro detail exactly what they do here? Most clients hire SEO professionals because they don't have the skills and/or the time to do the job on their own.

tconley79 · May 30, 2007, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyflower

While clients should always check references, why wouldn't an SEO pro detail exactly what they do here? Most clients hire SEO professionals because they don't have the skills and/or the time to do the job on their own.

Exactly.
And there's a difference between "This is what I will do." and "This is how I will do it."

An SEO Advisor/Analyst/Implementer might say "I will lock down the key words/phrases that your company is geared towards, and make sure all of your on-site (and some off-site) code is optimized to best convey those keyphrases." This should be enough to to get the client on the same page. The SEO consulatant doesn't have to go into intimate detail: "I will survey your marketing agent, your clients and your industry to get a get an idea of your company's position. I will then take that list and do some vocabulary research using thesauri, dictionaries, ect. Then I will condense that list and .... "

This goes for about every other consulting agency. Just because you know what they do, doesn't mean you know or have the time to do it yourself.

rcj662 · May 28, 2007, 07:28

They submit links to directories. Write articles and post site to other sites. Trade links if they can work on actual site. They also will do keyword research and optimize website for them if they work on site.

If they do not work on actual site they just submit url and text links to other sites and directories. Write articles and press releases.

May 26, 2007, 10:29	#1
Rotwang SitePoint Zealot Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 106	If I hire someone to do "SEO" what exactly are they doing? If I code a site for someone, and then they hire someone else to do "SEO", what is that person doing? I've never understood. I mean, if I've made the site search engine friendly (hyphens instead of _, avoid redundant content, meaningful urls, etc etc), and submitted it to the major search sites, than what else is "SEO work"? Are they just essentially catching whatever I missed in the SEO Faq sticky?

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May 26, 2007, 11:50	#2
slayerment is craving 'the potato' Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona, USA Posts: 605	It depends, in most cases they aren't doing anything. If they were they wouldn't be doing their "effective" techniques on someone else's site - they'd be doing it on their own sites.

May 26, 2007, 11:54	#5
dvduval phpLD Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,262	Well, you are starting off great by asking, and you should request a full disclosure of their "techniques", because some can get you in trouble. I always believe in is directory submissions and optimization of title tags on the site.

May 27, 2007, 07:31	#10
dvduval phpLD Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,262	Well, if I am the buyer of SEO services, I want to know exactly what they are doing. If they can't explain it clearly, I'm not buying. That was my point.

May 27, 2007, 13:56	#14
felgall Programming Since 1978 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia Posts: 10,811	If they were to explain exactly gow they work then you could do it for yourself instead of having them do it for you. Exactly what they will do probably varies from one to another with some trying to do something that is effective and otherb being a complete waste of money. Your best choice is to arrange things where you have a specific result that you want them to achieve such as certain pages in the top 20 for specific phrases in specified search engines for a specified period of time. That then gives both parties specific results that are to be achieved and you know exactly what you are getting regardless of exactly how they achieve it.

May 27, 2007, 14:28	#15
tomovuk WEBINSANE MEDIA Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Montenegro Posts: 826	Seo person is someone that does all the hard work for you and tries to stay on top of the game. Are you calling Bruce Clay a lier?

May 28, 2007, 01:08	#20
francesca_l0uise Non-Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 27	search engine optimization basically deals on on and off page optimization. One of your responsibility is to boost the traffic of your site.

May 28, 2007, 05:49	#21
Shyflower Word Painter Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Winona, MN USA Posts: 7,274	On page: Check your code and clean it up where necessary. Check you navigation structure to ensure that it's both user and SE friendly. Check your content to make sure that weighted factors are properly used and that your page content is relevant to the SE terms you want to target for that page. Off page: Help you find good backlinks to boost your pr and check existing backlinks to make sure those sites are still active, are using the text links you prefer and linking relevant pages on your site. (you have no control over what pages other sites link to, but if your backlinks aren't satisfactory, you need more of them and better, so in this respect a SEO pro prioritizes where to expend your link-seeking energies ). Also, submit to directories and social networking/bookmark sites on your behalf.

May 28, 2007, 07:28	#25
rcj662 SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,207	They submit links to directories. Write articles and post site to other sites. Trade links if they can work on actual site. They also will do keyword research and optimize website for them if they work on site. If they do not work on actual site they just submit url and text links to other sites and directories. Write articles and press releases.