SitePoint.com

Rotwang · May 26, 2007, 10:29

If I code a site for someone, and then they hire someone else to do "SEO", what is that person doing? I've never understood.

I mean, if I've made the site search engine friendly (hyphens instead of _, avoid redundant content, meaningful urls, etc etc), and submitted it to the major search sites, than what else is "SEO work"? Are they just essentially catching whatever I missed in the SEO Faq sticky?

slayerment · May 26, 2007, 11:50

It depends, in most cases they aren't doing anything. If they were they wouldn't be doing their "effective" techniques on someone else's site - they'd be doing it on their own sites.

dvduval · May 26, 2007, 11:54

Well, you are starting off great by asking, and you should request a full disclosure of their "techniques", because some can get you in trouble.

I always believe in is directory submissions and optimization of title tags on the site.

ArdRigh · May 26, 2007, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotwang

If I code a site for someone, and then they hire someone else to do "SEO", what is that person doing? I've never understood.

I mean, if I've made the site search engine friendly (hyphens instead of _, avoid redundant content, meaningful urls, etc etc), and submitted it to the major search sites, than what else is "SEO work"? Are they just essentially catching whatever I missed in the SEO Faq sticky?

Search engine optimization has a lot of factors. But basically, there are two main division in SEO, the off-page and the on-page optimization. The work that you've done,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotwang

(I mean, if I've made the site search engine friendly (hyphens instead of _, avoid redundant content, meaningful urls, etc etc), and submitted it to the major search sites,)

is just a minute part of SEO. SEO is not purely a scientific approach of producing results. It is a mixture of art and science, unlike programmers and developers that basically use the scientific approach of solving problems. If you search the net about SEO, you will see the vastness of this field.

Rotwang · May 26, 2007, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdRigh

Search engine optimization has a lot of factors. But basically, there are two main division in SEO, the off-page and the on-page optimization. The work that you've done,

is just a minute part of SEO. SEO is not purely a scientific approach of producing results. It is a mixture of art and science, unlike programmers and developers that basically use the scientific approach of solving problems. If you search the net about SEO, you will see the vastness of this field.

The question was "what exactly is an SEO doing?"

ArdRigh · May 26, 2007, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotwang

The question was "what exactly is an SEO doing?"

Can you please expound the intention of your question? Or do you mean a detailed answer regarding how an SEO work?

dvduval · May 27, 2007, 07:31

Well, if I am the buyer of SEO services, I want to know exactly what they are doing. If they can't explain it clearly, I'm not buying. That was my point.

felgall · May 27, 2007, 13:56

If they were to explain exactly gow they work then you could do it for yourself instead of having them do it for you.

Exactly what they will do probably varies from one to another with some trying to do something that is effective and otherb being a complete waste of money.

Your best choice is to arrange things where you have a specific result that you want them to achieve such as certain pages in the top 20 for specific phrases in specified search engines for a specified period of time. That then gives both parties specific results that are to be achieved and you know exactly what you are getting regardless of exactly how they achieve it.

tomovuk · May 27, 2007, 14:28

Seo person is someone that does all the hard work for you and tries to stay on top of the game. Are you calling Bruce Clay a lier?

HAWK · May 27, 2007, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotwang

The question was "what exactly is an SEO doing?"

Keyword research, on page optimisation of selected key words/phrases, directory submission, soliciting for backlinks... the list goes on.

francesca_l0uise · May 28, 2007, 01:08

search engine optimization basically deals on on and off page optimization.
One of your responsibility is to boost the traffic of your site.

Shyflower · May 28, 2007, 05:49

On page: Check your code and clean it up where necessary. Check you navigation structure to ensure that it's both user and SE friendly. Check your content to make sure that weighted factors are properly used and that your page content is relevant to the SE terms you want to target for that page.

Off page: Help you find good backlinks to boost your pr and check existing backlinks to make sure those sites are still active, are using the text links you prefer and linking relevant pages on your site. (you have no control over what pages other sites link to, but if your backlinks aren't satisfactory, you need more of them and better, so in this respect a SEO pro prioritizes where to expend your link-seeking energies ). Also, submit to directories and social networking/bookmark sites on your behalf.

rcj662 · May 28, 2007, 07:28

They submit links to directories. Write articles and post site to other sites. Trade links if they can work on actual site. They also will do keyword research and optimize website for them if they work on site.

If they do not work on actual site they just submit url and text links to other sites and directories. Write articles and press releases.

Asiadeep · May 29, 2007, 04:10

In this case I think the SEO will just submit the site to many web directories and article directories and post a few forum comments. Maybe in the future you can take up the whole SEO part of the project too to get some extra $mulah$

stymiee · May 29, 2007, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asiadeep

In this case I think the SEO will just submit the site to many web directories and article directories and post a few forum comments.

If that is what they are doing for SEO then you need to hire a real expert.

HotSuace · May 30, 2007, 08:45

I personally would never pay for a 'SEO Analyst'. I agree, most of the time they are probably just submitting to directories and buying article posts. This is something you could do on your own and save the $'s.

Rabies · May 30, 2007, 09:08

Hiring an SEO is risky, but basically they ensure you make proper use of keywords, title tag, meta tags, file naming, etc. If you already know this stuff, then you don't really need to hire an SEO (you'd be surprised how many web designers DON'T know how to SEO, and their eyes glaze over when I explain it).

Then the shady ones go too far and do stuff that risks having your site drop instead of climb up the listings.

(By the way, what is wrong with using "_" ??? )

JakeCop · May 30, 2007, 09:09

Do you seriously expect an SEO to detail exactly what they do in a public forum? Most won't even tell the client what they do, at least without an NDA.

If you're dubious over an SEO's ability, the proof is in the proverbial pudding. Ask for examples of their work. If they can't provide that, stay away.

simsim · May 30, 2007, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyflower

Check you navigation structure to ensure that it's both user and SE friendly.

How navigation structure can be optimized for Search Engines? I only know of using semantic markup (unordered lists) & machine-readable content (text links instead of images for anchors).

Shyflower · May 30, 2007, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by simsim

How navigation structure can be optimized for Search Engines? I only know of using semantic markup (unordered lists) & machine-readable content (text links instead of images for anchors).

Even if you have a site map where all links to all content are correct, an error in navigation on an internal page makes the site less user-friendly and therefore less SE friendly. This is especially true for main navigation links that resolve to pages that contain breadcrumbs which may not be displayed in the main navigation as well as breadcrumb links that don't resolve correctly.

If you are doing SEO and not checking internal links, IMO, you are not completing the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeCop

Do you seriously expect an SEO to detail exactly what they do in a public forum? Most won't even tell the client what they do, at least without an NDA.

If you're dubious over an SEO's ability, the proof is in the proverbial pudding. Ask for examples of their work. If they can't provide that, stay away.

While clients should always check references, why wouldn't an SEO pro detail exactly what they do here? Most clients hire SEO professionals because they don't have the skills and/or the time to do the job on their own.

tconley79 · May 30, 2007, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyflower

While clients should always check references, why wouldn't an SEO pro detail exactly what they do here? Most clients hire SEO professionals because they don't have the skills and/or the time to do the job on their own.

Exactly.
And there's a difference between "This is what I will do." and "This is how I will do it."

An SEO Advisor/Analyst/Implementer might say "I will lock down the key words/phrases that your company is geared towards, and make sure all of your on-site (and some off-site) code is optimized to best convey those keyphrases." This should be enough to to get the client on the same page. The SEO consulatant doesn't have to go into intimate detail: "I will survey your marketing agent, your clients and your industry to get a get an idea of your company's position. I will then take that list and do some vocabulary research using thesauri, dictionaries, ect. Then I will condense that list and .... "

This goes for about every other consulting agency. Just because you know what they do, doesn't mean you know or have the time to do it yourself.

dvduval · May 30, 2007, 11:15

We have to remember there was a time when doing a few submissions and optimizing your page good get you ranked highly in a very short time. This time has passed. But people who claim they can do this or believe others can do this still exist, so there is a lot of confusion.

I believe now you need a consitent plan that continues over a few years, and very much involves the customer in the process. You don't just had it over to an SEO expert and wait for the results. That is not the way it works any more.

marcel · May 30, 2007, 13:08

great thread

pixelsoul · May 30, 2007, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomovuk

Seo person is someone that does all the hard work for you and tries to stay on top of the game. Are you calling Bruce Clay a lier?

I wouldn't trust a guy who does SEO for you who uses a flash site withouth it embedded with javascript replacing a html menu

Who the hell are search engine's going to spider that

Dr John · May 30, 2007, 14:05

SEO means optimising which keywords are used, where they appear in the document, are the client's choices of keywords the ones users actually search on (and thus choosing better keywords to use), checking keyword density, checking what the opposition are doing, and continually doing all this, because your initial changes will take a while to work, as the search engines don't view pages as regularly as you'd like, and don't re-calculate your overall position daily.

What it doesn't involve is stuffing a few keywords into the meta tags.

For a club I belong to, once every few weeks I check where the club comes for various search terms, including ones suggested by new members (ones they used), where the opposition are and why they are higher than us, and then carefully edit the pages to improve things. It's NOT a five minute job. But it's not rocket science either. But it is time consuming, trying to think like someone who is new to the sport the club covers and trying to see inside their mind.

May 26, 2007, 10:29	#1
Rotwang SitePoint Zealot Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 106	If I hire someone to do "SEO" what exactly are they doing? If I code a site for someone, and then they hire someone else to do "SEO", what is that person doing? I've never understood. I mean, if I've made the site search engine friendly (hyphens instead of _, avoid redundant content, meaningful urls, etc etc), and submitted it to the major search sites, than what else is "SEO work"? Are they just essentially catching whatever I missed in the SEO Faq sticky?

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May 26, 2007, 11:50	#2
slayerment is craving 'the potato' Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona, USA Posts: 605	It depends, in most cases they aren't doing anything. If they were they wouldn't be doing their "effective" techniques on someone else's site - they'd be doing it on their own sites.

May 26, 2007, 11:54	#3
dvduval phpLD Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,259	Well, you are starting off great by asking, and you should request a full disclosure of their "techniques", because some can get you in trouble. I always believe in is directory submissions and optimization of title tags on the site.

May 27, 2007, 07:31	#7
dvduval phpLD Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,259	Well, if I am the buyer of SEO services, I want to know exactly what they are doing. If they can't explain it clearly, I'm not buying. That was my point.

May 27, 2007, 13:56	#8
felgall SitePoint Mentor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia Posts: 9,618	If they were to explain exactly gow they work then you could do it for yourself instead of having them do it for you. Exactly what they will do probably varies from one to another with some trying to do something that is effective and otherb being a complete waste of money. Your best choice is to arrange things where you have a specific result that you want them to achieve such as certain pages in the top 20 for specific phrases in specified search engines for a specified period of time. That then gives both parties specific results that are to be achieved and you know exactly what you are getting regardless of exactly how they achieve it.

May 27, 2007, 14:28	#9
tomovuk WEBINSANE MEDIA Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Montenegro Posts: 770	Seo person is someone that does all the hard work for you and tries to stay on top of the game. Are you calling Bruce Clay a lier?

May 28, 2007, 01:08	#11
francesca_l0uise Non-Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 27	search engine optimization basically deals on on and off page optimization. One of your responsibility is to boost the traffic of your site.

May 28, 2007, 05:49	#12
Shyflower Firmly Planted in Content Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Winona, MN USA Posts: 7,203	On page: Check your code and clean it up where necessary. Check you navigation structure to ensure that it's both user and SE friendly. Check your content to make sure that weighted factors are properly used and that your page content is relevant to the SE terms you want to target for that page. Off page: Help you find good backlinks to boost your pr and check existing backlinks to make sure those sites are still active, are using the text links you prefer and linking relevant pages on your site. (you have no control over what pages other sites link to, but if your backlinks aren't satisfactory, you need more of them and better, so in this respect a SEO pro prioritizes where to expend your link-seeking energies ). Also, submit to directories and social networking/bookmark sites on your behalf.

May 28, 2007, 07:28	#13
rcj662 SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,203	They submit links to directories. Write articles and post site to other sites. Trade links if they can work on actual site. They also will do keyword research and optimize website for them if they work on site. If they do not work on actual site they just submit url and text links to other sites and directories. Write articles and press releases.

May 29, 2007, 04:10	#14
Asiadeep SitePoint Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6	In this case I think the SEO will just submit the site to many web directories and article directories and post a few forum comments. Maybe in the future you can take up the whole SEO part of the project too to get some extra $mulah$

May 30, 2007, 08:45	#16
HotSuace SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 43	I personally would never pay for a 'SEO Analyst'. I agree, most of the time they are probably just submitting to directories and buying article posts. This is something you could do on your own and save the $'s.

May 30, 2007, 09:08	#17
Rabies SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,502	Hiring an SEO is risky, but basically they ensure you make proper use of keywords, title tag, meta tags, file naming, etc. If you already know this stuff, then you don't really need to hire an SEO (you'd be surprised how many web designers DON'T know how to SEO, and their eyes glaze over when I explain it). Then the shady ones go too far and do stuff that risks having your site drop instead of climb up the listings. (By the way, what is wrong with using "_" ??? )

May 30, 2007, 09:09	#18
JakeCop Impregnator of women Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 749	Do you seriously expect an SEO to detail exactly what they do in a public forum? Most won't even tell the client what they do, at least without an NDA. If you're dubious over an SEO's ability, the proof is in the proverbial pudding. Ask for examples of their work. If they can't provide that, stay away.

May 30, 2007, 11:15	#22
dvduval phpLD Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3,259	We have to remember there was a time when doing a few submissions and optimizing your page good get you ranked highly in a very short time. This time has passed. But people who claim they can do this or believe others can do this still exist, so there is a lot of confusion. I believe now you need a consitent plan that continues over a few years, and very much involves the customer in the process. You don't just had it over to an SEO expert and wait for the results. That is not the way it works any more.

May 30, 2007, 13:08	#23
marcel SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 1,403	great thread

May 30, 2007, 14:05	#25
Dr John SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kent Posts: 1,502	SEO means optimising which keywords are used, where they appear in the document, are the client's choices of keywords the ones users actually search on (and thus choosing better keywords to use), checking keyword density, checking what the opposition are doing, and continually doing all this, because your initial changes will take a while to work, as the search engines don't view pages as regularly as you'd like, and don't re-calculate your overall position daily. What it doesn't involve is stuffing a few keywords into the meta tags. For a club I belong to, once every few weeks I check where the club comes for various search terms, including ones suggested by new members (ones they used), where the opposition are and why they are higher than us, and then carefully edit the pages to improve things. It's NOT a five minute job. But it's not rocket science either. But it is time consuming, trying to think like someone who is new to the sport the club covers and trying to see inside their mind.