SitePoint.com

ArticleBot · Sep 8, 2003, 22:40

This is a dedicated thread for discussing the SitePoint article 'Banner Exchanges Unmasked'

Sep 8, 2003, 22:40

I have some experience with traffic exchange over the Internet with several web sites in this area. This article is one of the better I have read about considerations you need to look for in choosing the right banner exchange.

Well done Dan. I am sure many will benefit from your research and experience.

netcommr

Stan · Sep 9, 2003, 07:10

As the tread has already been started, I can hardly afford to waste it

So far I've only got one feedback message, but I can't help wanting for more, and would like to have it here for an open discussion.

Quote:

"The article should have discussed how banner exchanges are a bad deal for webmasters who do not know how to use them properly, and a good deal for webmasters who do. The article neither warned newbies about banner exchanges like the title implied, nor did it discuss issues of how to properly use banner exchanges on your site. Without knowledge of how you are going to use the banner exchange, the evaluation criteria are too abstract to matter."

If the topic outlined is of real interest, it can make for a great continuation for the present piece. But I avoided the issues specified and there was a purpose to it. IMO, prior to learning how to USE a certain tool, one should learn how to CHOOSE a proper one out of what the market has to offer. Moreover, from my experience as a Sitepont lurker (and then poster) I've got an impression that many webmasters already have a general idea of "how to properly use" or, at the very least of "how not to".
I never wanted to just state the obvious and concentrated on a bit more subtle things, that are likely to be unknown to the majority of potential readers.
Hope this thread will grow into a productive one and will help me to provide more and better info for Sitepoint audience in a near future.

Sep 13, 2003, 08:26

I would like to see which exchange the author prefers. In the end I feel a bit left out by just a list of exchanges. I realise that there is not one size fits all, but still a "do not use these ones" would have saved the readers a lot of work.

loanuniverse · Sep 13, 2003, 19:20

I have to disagree with the conclusions of the author. While I think that the effort was worthy, I saw the final grades for the exchanges, and I noticed some numbers that I frankly can’t help but wonder about. First some information about me:

I have had a website for several years and my own domain for more than five. In addition, I have had experiences with at least three of the networks reviewed. My disagreements are centered mostly on the grades that were given to the one network that I still use www.worldbe.com I find that some of the numbers are too low.

Let’s start with targeting, Worldbe was given a 2 rating. On the other hand, a network that I am familiar with was given a higher number. The problem is, I just opened both networks account managers in front of me and see the following:

The other network allows me to target by category, which is good

Worldbe not only allows me to target by category, but also geographically and it does it for each individual banner. This means that a banner could be targeted to Canadian surfers browsing humor websites. On the other hand, a more serious banner could be targeted to a different niche. BTW, the other network’s targeting is good for all the banners How did it get a better rating?

The article states that rich media is not supported in the Worldbe network. However, this is not the case as you can do that as long as you ask and are granted trusted status with the files being hosted in the member’s sites. As you are aware, there are certain safety issues with certain rich media. I think a better description would be limited rich-media capabilities

I also think excluding quality from the final considerations is not a good idea. I have to say that the reason why I am still with Worldbe is the fact that it gets results much better than larger networks. Total displays might only be about 400,000 a day right now, but there are several positive intangibles that should be considered for a comprehensive review. Such as the fact that while the exchange is a one man operation, it is backed up by at least 6 members that report any possible cheating or low quality sites and the operator follows up fairly quickly with several people having been banned already.

Furthermore, while the network only has about 400,000 impressions a day right now, the operator runs a couple of websites that he can bring into the network in minutes and take impressions over 1,000,000 if needed. I have never had a problem running targeted campaigns. Of course, I would not set up a campaign to run 1,000,000 impressions on Hungarian visitors to sports sites since it might take too long to run its course, but 100,000 geographical targeted campaigns to Canada or the UK are done in a few days.

I almost forgot to mention one more thing, Worldbe is one of the few exchanges that allows for members to trade impressions. While I am a very low producer of impressions, since the exchange ads only appear on my site if there are no paid ads available, and my inventory is always sold, I have gotten hundreds of thousands of impressions from other Webmasters. This alone is a fact worthy of mention

Stan · Sep 15, 2003, 03:00

Thanks for the input, loanuniverse
I really appreciate it.
Let me comment a little bit:
Targeting rating was assigned mostly for targeting combinations available, not for the cheer presence of certain targeting options.
Granted, WorldBE gives you the capability to target both be GEO and category, but there are networks (or at least one of them, that gives this plus, browser type, time, days of the week, browser and OS used by the surfer, particular sites and whatnot). That particular option was taken as 4 grade. Granted, the combo mentioned by you is very important by any webmaster, but for quite many of them a combo of "lunch time local Unix users" is just as much important.

Quality is a thing not that easy to evaluate as well. It is mentioned in the article itself, but was excluded from the ratings purposefully - not many networks provide access to their member lists

Impression trade might be quite an important thing, but there are other exchanges in the list that offer the same (just check the demo account of RLE-Network) for example to see credits transfer menu.
But from my personal experience the price difference between impressions obtained from the network itself and from another member is often well justified - the "network" credits tend to offer more versatility, reliability, control and whatnot... It might have been good to review the differences of credits purchased and earned for different networks, but the article turned-out to be big enough as it is

Maybe in a sequel?...

Rich-media can be made safe even if uploaded on a network server, provided that you have enough knowledge and manpower... the latter is what WorlBE seems to be lacking. It's a good network, there ain't no doubt, but it's a bit too amateurish (as of now at least), though its potential is great and the man-in-charge is highly skilled, pleasant to deal with and almost PERFECT for his job.

loanuniverse · Sep 15, 2003, 06:05

Stan:

We will have to agree to disagree. I was not looking for a ?4? rating on targeting. I just happened to compare with another one that was given a 3 rating, and found that Worldbe was more versatile.

Regarding the rich-media, I am the last person to talk about that since all my banners are very boring gif types. However, I might have been mistaken before since I realize that there are two rich-media options in Worldbe. ?One to upload and a trusted-member status allowing you to host the file in your own server?. Frankly, I would not know how to use it even if I wanted to.

I also think that your article has a lot of merit, and deserves a higher rating than the one it has so far.

Stan · Sep 15, 2003, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I would like to see which exchange the author prefers. In the end I feel a bit left out by just a list of exchanges. I realise that there is not one size fits all, but still a "do not use these ones" would have saved the readers a lot of work.

I tried not to include the ones that should not be used at all in that listing. But if you ask for personal preferences, I'd say that:

...detailes removed by Stan...

I've been pointed-out by one of the readers that it felt like advertizing of the ones mentioned

I apologise and more than ready to give any specifics in private message.

Stan · Sep 15, 2003, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by loanuniverse

Stan:

We will have to agree to disagree. I was not looking for a ?4? rating on targeting. I just happened to compare with another one that was given a 3 rating, and found that Worldbe was more versatile.

It could well be... versatility is a very subjective criteria and the estimation depends heavily upon the actual needs of the one who's tring to evaluate. I'll try to find some time and go back to all the networks listed - than some figures might change, but not many of them I believe

Quote:

Originally Posted by loanuniverse

Regarding the rich-media, I am the last person to talk about that since all my banners are very boring gif types. However, I might have been mistaken before since I realize that there are two rich-media options in WorldBE. ?One to upload and a trusted-member status allowing you to host the file in your own server?. Frankly, I would not know how to use it even if I wanted to.

From what I've seen at NetTalk, Martyn seems to agree with my estimate on that issue

Another reason to respect him even more (if possible at all)

Quote:

Originally Posted by loanuniverse

I also think that your article has a lot of merit, and deserves a higher rating than the one it has so far.

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.
And for the present rate I must be thankful to WBE defenders - most of their feedback seem to be like "WBE is better (rating 2)"

Sep 8, 2003, 22:40	#1
ArticleBot SitePoint Articles Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 0	Discussion thread for Banner Exchanges Unmasked This is a dedicated thread for discussing the SitePoint article 'Banner Exchanges Unmasked'

Sep 13, 2003, 19:20	#5
loanuniverse Obey the Suit! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: United States Posts: 670	A quick comment I have to disagree with the conclusions of the author. While I think that the effort was worthy, I saw the final grades for the exchanges, and I noticed some numbers that I frankly can’t help but wonder about. First some information about me: I have had a website for several years and my own domain for more than five. In addition, I have had experiences with at least three of the networks reviewed. My disagreements are centered mostly on the grades that were given to the one network that I still use www.worldbe.com I find that some of the numbers are too low. Let’s start with targeting, Worldbe was given a 2 rating. On the other hand, a network that I am familiar with was given a higher number. The problem is, I just opened both networks account managers in front of me and see the following: The other network allows me to target by category, which is good Worldbe not only allows me to target by category, but also geographically and it does it for each individual banner. This means that a banner could be targeted to Canadian surfers browsing humor websites. On the other hand, a more serious banner could be targeted to a different niche. BTW, the other network’s targeting is good for all the banners How did it get a better rating? The article states that rich media is not supported in the Worldbe network. However, this is not the case as you can do that as long as you ask and are granted trusted status with the files being hosted in the member’s sites. As you are aware, there are certain safety issues with certain rich media. I think a better description would be limited rich-media capabilities I also think excluding quality from the final considerations is not a good idea. I have to say that the reason why I am still with Worldbe is the fact that it gets results much better than larger networks. Total displays might only be about 400,000 a day right now, but there are several positive intangibles that should be considered for a comprehensive review. Such as the fact that while the exchange is a one man operation, it is backed up by at least 6 members that report any possible cheating or low quality sites and the operator follows up fairly quickly with several people having been banned already. Furthermore, while the network only has about 400,000 impressions a day right now, the operator runs a couple of websites that he can bring into the network in minutes and take impressions over 1,000,000 if needed. I have never had a problem running targeted campaigns. Of course, I would not set up a campaign to run 1,000,000 impressions on Hungarian visitors to sports sites since it might take too long to run its course, but 100,000 geographical targeted campaigns to Canada or the UK are done in a few days. I almost forgot to mention one more thing, Worldbe is one of the few exchanges that allows for members to trade impressions. While I am a very low producer of impressions, since the exchange ads only appear on my site if there are no paid ads available, and my inventory is always sold, I have gotten hundreds of thousands of impressions from other Webmasters. This alone is a fact worthy of mention

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Sep 8, 2003, 22:40	#2
Anonymous SitePoint Community Guest Posts: n/a	I have some experience with traffic exchange over the Internet with several web sites in this area. This article is one of the better I have read about considerations you need to look for in choosing the right banner exchange. Well done Dan. I am sure many will benefit from your research and experience. netcommr

Sep 13, 2003, 08:26	#4
Anonymous SitePoint Community Guest Posts: n/a	I would like to see which exchange the author prefers. In the end I feel a bit left out by just a list of exchanges. I realise that there is not one size fits all, but still a "do not use these ones" would have saved the readers a lot of work.

Sep 15, 2003, 03:00	#6
Stan SitePoint Zealot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Earth :) Posts: 194	Thanks for the input, loanuniverse I really appreciate it. Let me comment a little bit: Targeting rating was assigned mostly for targeting combinations available, not for the cheer presence of certain targeting options. Granted, WorldBE gives you the capability to target both be GEO and category, but there are networks (or at least one of them, that gives this plus, browser type, time, days of the week, browser and OS used by the surfer, particular sites and whatnot). That particular option was taken as 4 grade. Granted, the combo mentioned by you is very important by any webmaster, but for quite many of them a combo of "lunch time local Unix users" is just as much important. Quality is a thing not that easy to evaluate as well. It is mentioned in the article itself, but was excluded from the ratings purposefully - not many networks provide access to their member lists Impression trade might be quite an important thing, but there are other exchanges in the list that offer the same (just check the demo account of RLE-Network) for example to see credits transfer menu. But from my personal experience the price difference between impressions obtained from the network itself and from another member is often well justified - the "network" credits tend to offer more versatility, reliability, control and whatnot... It might have been good to review the differences of credits purchased and earned for different networks, but the article turned-out to be big enough as it is Maybe in a sequel?... Rich-media can be made safe even if uploaded on a network server, provided that you have enough knowledge and manpower... the latter is what WorlBE seems to be lacking. It's a good network, there ain't no doubt, but it's a bit too amateurish (as of now at least), though its potential is great and the man-in-charge is highly skilled, pleasant to deal with and almost PERFECT for his job.

Sep 15, 2003, 06:05	#7
loanuniverse Obey the Suit! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: United States Posts: 670	Stan: We will have to agree to disagree. I was not looking for a ?4? rating on targeting. I just happened to compare with another one that was given a 3 rating, and found that Worldbe was more versatile. Regarding the rich-media, I am the last person to talk about that since all my banners are very boring gif types. However, I might have been mistaken before since I realize that there are two rich-media options in Worldbe. ?One to upload and a trusted-member status allowing you to host the file in your own server?. Frankly, I would not know how to use it even if I wanted to. I also think that your article has a lot of merit, and deserves a higher rating than the one it has so far.