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ArticleBot · Jun 19, 2003, 05:42

This is a dedicated thread for discussing the SitePoint article 'Big Brother Is Watching Us All'

mmi · Jun 19, 2003, 05:57

I love Big Brother [img]images/smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/thumbs_up.gif[/img] - and I hope SP keeps track of everyone reading that article and turns the names over to the Minstry of Love

Quote:

Nobody ever escaped detection, and nobody ever failed to confess. When once you succumbed to thoughtcrime it was certain that by a given day you would be dead.

They could lay bare in the utmost detail everything that you had done or said or thought.

There is a word in Newspeak,' said Syme, 'I don't know whether you know it: duckspeak, to quack like a duck. It is one of those interesting words that have two contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it is abuse; applied to someone you agree with, it is praise.

We control matter, because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if I wished to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it.

sorry, I couldn't find the "off-topic" button - delete at will, Comrade O'Brien

Paul_C · Jun 19, 2003, 19:10

I agree with Anonymous. This article was just a political rant and while I agree with it I don't believe this is the correct place for it. Had it approached the subject from the perspective of what web developers around the world are doing with the new laws and policies it would have been one thing, but it didn't and its link to web developement is tenuous at best.

Just because you have a forum for politics doesn't mean it should be plastered on the front page. (Isn't there a reason the Politics area was sectioned off to a user-group?)

jaiem · Jun 19, 2003, 21:40

It isn't just computers, systems and IT.

In the recent few years I've noticed more and more businesses, organization and the gov asking (demanding sometimes) more and more personal info for very common, basic activities/transactions.

2 personal cases come to mind off the top of my head:

1) Last year I needed to move an IRA account from mutual fund company A to mutual fund company B. Company B required me to get a Medalion Signature Guarantee on the form (not the same as a notary). Only a bank can do a sig guar. So I went to a bank where I had an account for 10+ years. All I needed was for them to stamp the form that it was my signature. This transaction had nothing to do with the bank (no money in or out of the bank). Well, to make a longer story shorter both the clerk and the branch manager refused to confirm my signature. The manager insisted that I needed to provider her with a current account statement from company A, a prospectus about the new fund from company B, a letter from company B saying they accept my transfer (that's what the form w/the sig guar was for!) and some "proof" that I have the legal authority to make this transaction. Then I would have to leave it all with her and she'd have the branch financial planner review it to determine if this move was in my best interests. Total BS!!!!!!!!!!!
(I went across the street to another bank where I have an account and in 2 minutes they had stamped the form and bid me good day. No questions, no hassels).

2) Last week I needed to withdraw some funds my my account (different bank than above). I wanted the money in a bank check (aka tellers check, official check etc). The manager came over and asked what I was going to use the money for. I looked right at him and said "It's none of your business!" I got my check but the nerve!!

Other little things too like employment applications, travel reservations, even just to join the local Block Buster!

AlexW · Jun 20, 2003, 23:18

While we certainly appreciate that many people come to SitePoint for the strictly development focussed content, I'd personally like to think there is always a place for 'think-pieces' like Greg's.

I think variety is the key. I don't read everything we publish, but I read the first 4 or 5 paragraphs and it got me.

Good one.

Pandrogas · Jun 21, 2003, 14:32

I agree with Alex, Sitepoint deserves a slightly off-topic article every so often.
Though I'm not sure why people complain about thwere it all goes. C'mon people!
Be curious about ALL aspecs of development. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Also, I just wanted to point out a small anecdote on the US Patriot acts that allow the
government to look at your internet usage. At one point, thankfully before it was passed,
the act had a section stating that any governement employee could waltz up to an ISP and get your information.
Now that includes logs, times, etc.. But it also include e-mail, cookies, and the like.
Thank God they didn't pass that version of the law! Lol... Though they can still access the information, they need a warrant now.

Just thought I'd add that to keep up the paranoia perspective. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Good article, keep it up. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

greg.harvey · Jul 10, 2003, 09:11

Erm, anonymous reader misses point... or fails to read past the first para perhaps?

The article is about WHY data is collected and where the law sits on that issue. It has nothing to do with HOW data is collected. You clearly have a lot of knowledge on the subject of privacy invasion via technology. Well done you. You can't have been reading the article though because your comments don't relate to it.

G

z0s0 · Jul 10, 2003, 23:41

Anon: "Properly placed"? I'll wager with you any dollar value of your desire that you cannot "properly place" such a device to snoop my email.

Yes, that is a challenge ;-)

Jun 19, 2003, 05:42	#1
ArticleBot SitePoint Articles Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 0	Discussion thread for Big Brother Is Watching Us All This is a dedicated thread for discussing the SitePoint article 'Big Brother Is Watching Us All'

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Jun 19, 2003, 19:10	#3
Paul_C Rabble Rouser Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 431	I agree with Anonymous. This article was just a political rant and while I agree with it I don't believe this is the correct place for it. Had it approached the subject from the perspective of what web developers around the world are doing with the new laws and policies it would have been one thing, but it didn't and its link to web developement is tenuous at best. Just because you have a forum for politics doesn't mean it should be plastered on the front page. (Isn't there a reason the Politics area was sectioned off to a user-group?)

Jun 19, 2003, 21:40	#4
jaiem SitePoint Addict Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: New York, USA Posts: 1,012	It isn't just computers, systems and IT. In the recent few years I've noticed more and more businesses, organization and the gov asking (demanding sometimes) more and more personal info for very common, basic activities/transactions. 2 personal cases come to mind off the top of my head: 1) Last year I needed to move an IRA account from mutual fund company A to mutual fund company B. Company B required me to get a Medalion Signature Guarantee on the form (not the same as a notary). Only a bank can do a sig guar. So I went to a bank where I had an account for 10+ years. All I needed was for them to stamp the form that it was my signature. This transaction had nothing to do with the bank (no money in or out of the bank). Well, to make a longer story shorter both the clerk and the branch manager refused to confirm my signature. The manager insisted that I needed to provider her with a current account statement from company A, a prospectus about the new fund from company B, a letter from company B saying they accept my transfer (that's what the form w/the sig guar was for!) and some "proof" that I have the legal authority to make this transaction. Then I would have to leave it all with her and she'd have the branch financial planner review it to determine if this move was in my best interests. Total BS!!!!!!!!!!! (I went across the street to another bank where I have an account and in 2 minutes they had stamped the form and bid me good day. No questions, no hassels). 2) Last week I needed to withdraw some funds my my account (different bank than above). I wanted the money in a bank check (aka tellers check, official check etc). The manager came over and asked what I was going to use the money for. I looked right at him and said "It's none of your business!" I got my check but the nerve!! Other little things too like employment applications, travel reservations, even just to join the local Block Buster!

Jun 20, 2003, 23:18	#5
AlexW Team SitePoint Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,004	While we certainly appreciate that many people come to SitePoint for the strictly development focussed content, I'd personally like to think there is always a place for 'think-pieces' like Greg's. I think variety is the key. I don't read everything we publish, but I read the first 4 or 5 paragraphs and it got me. Good one.

Jun 21, 2003, 14:32	#6
Pandrogas Shiny Content! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Bozeman, MT Posts: 426	I agree with Alex, Sitepoint deserves a slightly off-topic article every so often. Though I'm not sure why people complain about thwere it all goes. C'mon people! Be curious about ALL aspecs of development. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] Also, I just wanted to point out a small anecdote on the US Patriot acts that allow the government to look at your internet usage. At one point, thankfully before it was passed, the act had a section stating that any governement employee could waltz up to an ISP and get your information. Now that includes logs, times, etc.. But it also include e-mail, cookies, and the like. Thank God they didn't pass that version of the law! Lol... Though they can still access the information, they need a warrant now. Just thought I'd add that to keep up the paranoia perspective. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] Good article, keep it up. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Jul 10, 2003, 09:11	#7
greg.harvey Drupaler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,299	Erm, anonymous reader misses point... or fails to read past the first para perhaps? The article is about WHY data is collected and where the law sits on that issue. It has nothing to do with HOW data is collected. You clearly have a lot of knowledge on the subject of privacy invasion via technology. Well done you. You can't have been reading the article though because your comments don't relate to it. G

Jul 10, 2003, 23:41	#8
z0s0 There is no general chat Join Date: Aug 1998 Location: Melbourne Posts: 251	Anon: "Properly placed"? I'll wager with you any dollar value of your desire that you cannot "properly place" such a device to snoop my email. Yes, that is a challenge ;-)