SitePoint.com

aspen · Oct 31, 2002, 13:57

Any idiot can get PageRank, seriously. It's not a big secret, it isn't complicated, its very simple to do.

What will make the most difference is what you do with the PageRank. You need to control it, filter it, launder it, funnel it. This is where many people fall short. They do not utilize what PageRank they are given. If their site were a bucket it would be full of holes.

The fact is that nearly half of your PageRank comes from within your site. As long as you have more than one page, you should be getting atleast roughly 49% of your PageRank from internal links. If your site is particularly full of holes it may be less, but still substantial, and if you have plugged all your holes it will be more. All this PageRank is yours to control, and if it is targetted correctly it will help you considerably.

The answers are right in front of you.

worksdev · Oct 31, 2002, 14:21

Quote:

Originally posted by aspen
Any idiot can get PageRank, seriously.

Whahooo, I'm in.

Chris, what does this mean? What are the holes? Lost business or lost PageRank by doing something like outbound links?

Quote:

If your site is particularly full of holes it may be less, but still substantial, and if you have plugged all your holes it will be more. All this PageRank is yours to control, and if it is targetted correctly it will help you considerably.

The answers are right in front of you.

best regards,
worksdev

aspen · Oct 31, 2002, 14:33

Any link off your site is a hole.

Any link to a internal page that doesn't link back is a hole. For instance, to pick on Jeremy, this page: http://www.barefooting.com/support.php has a hole. If you click on trouble tickets you have no link back to the site - so all the pagerank from that page is going straight back to isolsoft.

Affiliate links are horrible holes.

All in all linking to any page a search engine doesn't need to see (like a user profile, etc) is a hole.

You can plug holes, or you can out number them with links pointing back into your site.

worksdev · Oct 31, 2002, 14:36

Quote:

Originally posted by aspen
Any link off your site is a hole.

Really? I'm not disputing, I just thought that offsite links did not affect PageRank.

I guess I'm wrong?

best regards
worksdev

aspen · Oct 31, 2002, 14:39

Yup.

If you have a page on your site that links to 1 page on your site, and 1 page off your site, then the page on your site that it is linking to will only have half the PR it could have had. If you gotta share PR between internal links and external links then internal links will get less than if you had no external links.

PageRank flows from one link to another, the trick is to keep it flowing around your site.

tommatthews · Oct 31, 2002, 15:54

Any chance of an article about this Aspen?

Archbob · Oct 31, 2002, 16:12

Roughly a little more than half of the link on my site are internal links. I do have external link to many sites but many of them also have link back to me so it all works out in the end. I don't do javascript link because it would discourage people to LE with me which is a important part of my traffic. But aspen is right, control your PR if possible.

Herbster · Oct 31, 2002, 17:16

What about redirect scripts?
Are they effective in retaining PR?

aspen · Oct 31, 2002, 18:36

No, then you just throw PR at the script url.

Ravedesigns · Oct 31, 2002, 19:31

...what if you're using javascript or DHTML for navigation on pages? Am I shooting myself in the foot here? Would I be better off with text links...and is it worth the page rank to mess up what I think is a great navigation system?

Google's still a mystery to me, and I appreciate your sheding some light on the issue!

All the best,

Steve

Archbob · Oct 31, 2002, 19:45

You don't want to use javascript for site nav, then you'd be hiding your own links from google.

aspen · Oct 31, 2002, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Ravedesigns
...what if you're using javascript or DHTML for navigation on pages? Am I shooting myself in the foot here? Would I be better off with text links...and is it worth the page rank to mess up what I think is a great navigation system?

Google's still a mystery to me, and I appreciate your sheding some light on the issue!

All the best,

Steve

In most cases Yes, some DHTML menu's are search engine compatible because they are standard links in a layer and it's just the layer that moves around.

If you're using a graphical menu you might find the faking a graphic link discussion in the main search engine forum interesting.

Cloughie · Nov 1, 2002, 00:47

Aspen,

Remember what we talked about yesterday in regards to the pop up box text upon rolling over a link? I forget the exact name now..

Would this hurt me in google picking up my links? Just checking before I re-arrange things.

Also does google have a page where it completely explains its page rank system?

billiousness · Nov 1, 2002, 03:22

I read a great(imo) 2 part article about natural linking and other issues to help boost link popularity.

i would post the link however it was at an adult webmaster resources site.

pm me if you want the link.

aspen · Nov 1, 2002, 05:54

No, you're fine.

Read the important thread at the top of this subforum.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cloughie
Aspen,

Remember what we talked about yesterday in regards to the pop up box text upon rolling over a link? I forget the exact name now..

Would this hurt me in google picking up my links? Just checking before I re-arrange things.

Also does google have a page where it completely explains its page rank system?

megavox · Nov 1, 2002, 08:07

Want to learn how PageRank and internal linking really works?

Want a calculator that lets you optimize your internal link structure?

I know you guys have been waiting for this link to be posted.

This is a must read, everything is very well explained. Enjoy!

Click here!

Eric

aspen · Nov 1, 2002, 08:51

That article has one inaccuracy:

Quote:

Google views the ODP (Open Directory Project) and Yahoo! directories as very important, and gives a PageRank boost to sites that are listed in them. Being listed in one is good but being listed in both is better. Listings in the ODP are free but, because sites are reviewed by hand, it can take quite a long time to get in. The sooner a working site is submitted, the better.

The only boost you get from being in DMOZ is the value of the actual link from the directory to your site.

Technosailor · Nov 1, 2002, 08:55

Quote:

Originally posted by megavox
Want to learn how PageRank and internal linking really works?

Want a calculator that lets you optimize your internal link structure?

I know you guys have been waiting for this link to be posted.

This is a must read, everything is very well explained. Enjoy!

Click here!

Eric

Why does this sound like an advertisement?

megavox · Nov 1, 2002, 09:10

I know I feel like a cheap used car salesman.

But I really like the site and it's very helpful. I have no affiliation to the site at all.

I know it will be VERY useful for everyone in this forum who is interested in Search Engine Optimization.

It does sound like a sales pitch but that's not my intention.

Did you even go to the site?

Eric

Herbster · Nov 1, 2002, 09:26

Opps! Hit the back button and re-posted.

Technosailor · Nov 1, 2002, 09:41

Quote:

Originally posted by megavox
I know I feel like a cheap used car salesman.

But I really like the site and it's very helpful. I have no affiliation to the site at all.

I know it will be VERY useful for everyone in this forum who is interested in Search Engine Optimization.

It does sound like a sales pitch but that's not my intention.

Did you even go to the site?

Eric

yes it did and yes I did

worksdev · Nov 1, 2002, 11:57

Alright, so in regards to understanding funneling page rank:

By using the calculator linked to from the article that megavox recommended, I find that my home page A gets a better PageRank if I link from A to B,C,D and then from B,C,D back to A, then if I if I just link all pages to each other. Is this correct?

Thanks.
Sean

megavox · Nov 1, 2002, 12:08

Yes that correct!

All those pages are "casting a vote" for page A. Therefore, page A is seen as more relevant than the other pages and is given a higher PR.

Regards,
Eric

worksdev · Nov 1, 2002, 12:36

That's kind of bogus (meaning I don't like it

) because that means the best site link structure (thus navigation structure) is to have people go from the index page to a sub-page, then back to the index page and to another sub-page, and then back, ect. Resulting in up-down-up-down navigation. The web should be the web, allowing one to click from one page to another in any non-linear fashion he or she chooses. It creates an interesting challenge to begin to design sites with usability and search engine rankings in mind.

best regards,
worksdev

worksdev · Nov 1, 2002, 12:39

In regards to the same subject I just mentioned, Aspen, can you give us some tips on funneling PageRank in a site. I just looked at your wilderness site. It appears to have all the pages cross-linked.

Thanks,
worksdev

Oct 31, 2002, 13:57	#1
aspen Serial Publisher Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: East Lansing, MI USA Posts: 13,285	Controlling PageRank proves possible with prudent planning. Any idiot can get PageRank, seriously. It's not a big secret, it isn't complicated, its very simple to do. What will make the most difference is what you do with the PageRank. You need to control it, filter it, launder it, funnel it. This is where many people fall short. They do not utilize what PageRank they are given. If their site were a bucket it would be full of holes. The fact is that nearly half of your PageRank comes from within your site. As long as you have more than one page, you should be getting atleast roughly 49% of your PageRank from internal links. If your site is particularly full of holes it may be less, but still substantial, and if you have plugged all your holes it will be more. All this PageRank is yours to control, and if it is targetted correctly it will help you considerably. The answers are right in front of you.

Oct 31, 2002, 14:33	#3
aspen Serial Publisher Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: East Lansing, MI USA Posts: 13,285	how I hate horrible holes Any link off your site is a hole. Any link to a internal page that doesn't link back is a hole. For instance, to pick on Jeremy, this page: http://www.barefooting.com/support.php has a hole. If you click on trouble tickets you have no link back to the site - so all the pagerank from that page is going straight back to isolsoft. Affiliate links are horrible holes. All in all linking to any page a search engine doesn't need to see (like a user profile, etc) is a hole. You can plug holes, or you can out number them with links pointing back into your site.

Oct 31, 2002, 19:31	#10
Ravedesigns SitePoint Mentor Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 2,688	Hey Chris - what if... ...what if you're using javascript or DHTML for navigation on pages? Am I shooting myself in the foot here? Would I be better off with text links...and is it worth the page rank to mess up what I think is a great navigation system? Google's still a mystery to me, and I appreciate your sheding some light on the issue! All the best, Steve

Nov 1, 2002, 09:10	#19
megavox SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Montreal, canada Posts: 27	I know I feel like a cheap used car salesman. But I really like the site and it's very helpful. I have no affiliation to the site at all. I know it will be VERY useful for everyone in this forum who is interested in Search Engine Optimization. It does sound like a sales pitch but that's not my intention. Did you even go to the site? Eric Last edited by megavox; Nov 1, 2002 at 09:15.

Nov 1, 2002, 09:26	#20
Herbster The short answer is yes... Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Bay City, Oregon Posts: 733	Opps! Hit the back button and re-posted. Last edited by Herbster; Nov 1, 2002 at 09:29.

Oct 31, 2002, 14:39	#5
aspen Serial Publisher Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: East Lansing, MI USA Posts: 13,285	Yup. If you have a page on your site that links to 1 page on your site, and 1 page off your site, then the page on your site that it is linking to will only have half the PR it could have had. If you gotta share PR between internal links and external links then internal links will get less than if you had no external links. PageRank flows from one link to another, the trick is to keep it flowing around your site.

Oct 31, 2002, 15:54	#6
tommatthews Net Senior Citizen Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,037	Any chance of an article about this Aspen?

Oct 31, 2002, 16:12	#7
Archbob Level 8 Chinese guy Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Somewhere in this vast universe Posts: 3,809	Roughly a little more than half of the link on my site are internal links. I do have external link to many sites but many of them also have link back to me so it all works out in the end. I don't do javascript link because it would discourage people to LE with me which is a important part of my traffic. But aspen is right, control your PR if possible.

Oct 31, 2002, 17:16	#8
Herbster The short answer is yes... Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Bay City, Oregon Posts: 733	What about redirect scripts? Are they effective in retaining PR?

Oct 31, 2002, 18:36	#9
aspen Serial Publisher Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: East Lansing, MI USA Posts: 13,285	No, then you just throw PR at the script url.

Oct 31, 2002, 19:45	#11
Archbob Level 8 Chinese guy Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Somewhere in this vast universe Posts: 3,809	You don't want to use javascript for site nav, then you'd be hiding your own links from google.

Nov 1, 2002, 00:47	#13
Cloughie SitePoint Guru Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: England Posts: 601	Aspen, Remember what we talked about yesterday in regards to the pop up box text upon rolling over a link? I forget the exact name now.. Would this hurt me in google picking up my links? Just checking before I re-arrange things. Also does google have a page where it completely explains its page rank system?

Nov 1, 2002, 03:22	#14
billiousness SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brisbane QLD Australia Posts: 1,690	I read a great(imo) 2 part article about natural linking and other issues to help boost link popularity. i would post the link however it was at an adult webmaster resources site. pm me if you want the link.

Nov 1, 2002, 08:07	#16
megavox SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Montreal, canada Posts: 27	Want to learn how PageRank and internal linking really works? Want a calculator that lets you optimize your internal link structure? I know you guys have been waiting for this link to be posted. This is a must read, everything is very well explained. Enjoy! Click here! Eric

Nov 1, 2002, 11:57	#22
worksdev SitePoint Evangelist Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Central, PA - originally from Monterey, CA Posts: 508	Alright, so in regards to understanding funneling page rank: By using the calculator linked to from the article that megavox recommended, I find that my home page A gets a better PageRank if I link from A to B,C,D and then from B,C,D back to A, then if I if I just link all pages to each other. Is this correct? Thanks. Sean

Nov 1, 2002, 12:08	#23
megavox SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Montreal, canada Posts: 27	Yes that correct! All those pages are "casting a vote" for page A. Therefore, page A is seen as more relevant than the other pages and is given a higher PR. Regards, Eric

Nov 1, 2002, 12:36	#24
worksdev SitePoint Evangelist Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Central, PA - originally from Monterey, CA Posts: 508	That's kind of bogus (meaning I don't like it ) because that means the best site link structure (thus navigation structure) is to have people go from the index page to a sub-page, then back to the index page and to another sub-page, and then back, ect. Resulting in up-down-up-down navigation. The web should be the web, allowing one to click from one page to another in any non-linear fashion he or she chooses. It creates an interesting challenge to begin to design sites with usability and search engine rankings in mind. best regards, worksdev

Nov 1, 2002, 12:39	#25
worksdev SitePoint Evangelist Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Central, PA - originally from Monterey, CA Posts: 508	In regards to the same subject I just mentioned, Aspen, can you give us some tips on funneling PageRank in a site. I just looked at your wilderness site. It appears to have all the pages cross-linked. Thanks, worksdev

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