SitePoint.com

nOttY nUt · Oct 8, 2002, 06:01

Hi.

Just 2 months back, I got an order to make the design of a site belonging to a very high profile cosumer goods company based in India. Actually, another person acted as a middleman between me and the company executives. He portrayed to the company officials as if he himself is working on the design.

I worked on the design for atleast 4-6 weeks, and then this middleman told me that I was way behind the deadlines and also the company officials have rejected my design. And he told me that he will hire another designer.

And to my horrow/shock, I saw my design over there on the company's site... a little bit modified but overall looked exactly similar. I tried to contact the middleman and asked him for the payment atleast for the design part and the time i have devoted to the site. But, to my disappointment, he is refusing to pay me anything. Being a student and a freelancer, he thinks that I will not be able to achieve my objective.

I am quite confused. What should I do? I have the original source code for the design. Should I call the company executives? since this a very very large comapany, will they pay attention to my views? what should i do?

please help urgently....

thanks
notty

watl1 · Oct 8, 2002, 06:36

Did you have a contract in place before you started designing the site?

Louise

nOttY nUt · Oct 8, 2002, 06:38

Quote:

Originally posted by watl1
Did you have a contract in place before you started designing the site?

Louise

no... that was my big mistake... i trusted him

watl1 · Oct 8, 2002, 06:49

Ok...well I won't pretend to be a lawyer but I'm not sure that there is a great deal you can do about it now, except phone the company in question and politely ask them to close the site.

See the following articles for more info:
[URL=http://www.ecommercebase.com/article/35]
http://www.ecommercebase.com/article/504

Hope this is of help, but hey - at least you know for next time!!

Louise

watl1 · Oct 8, 2002, 06:50

This one's quite useful too:

http://www.ecommercebase.com/article/504

Hartmann · Oct 8, 2002, 07:52

Contracts! Always have a contract...

I am setting up a business deal with a friend and we have both agreed to have a contract between us. Most people will feel more comfortable if you offer to have a contract written up. It will save you time, effort, and possibly your butt in the future.

ChrisRoss · Oct 9, 2002, 14:31

Your really out of luck.

I would contact the company directly, explain what happened. Be sure to make a big deal out of it and get as much info as you can about the company. If you don't get paid at least you can make the middle man look bad or get him fired (if he works for the company).

nOttY nUt · Oct 10, 2002, 05:43

I have now got sufficient contact information of the high profile executives in the company, and would be sending them an email telling them the truth behind all this ****.

I just hope, the company executives ask that idiot for an answer.

Manpreet

Mike · Oct 10, 2002, 07:55

Well, if you have the original source files.....

Just put up a site with your design that you made. You did make it after all. Then contact them saying that their design is a rip off of yours, and that you can prove it.

Unless you gave the middle man the .psd's or whatever the format of your editor is, you're the only one with them.

rex1 · Oct 10, 2002, 10:24

The same is happenning with me also . I have been told by company executives and there's a middleman . Though i don't know whether he is posing that he's doing the design . The executives have asked me (through the middleman) to make the whole site and then they'll pay me the money . I asked them to draw up a contract but they've refused . What should I do ?

samsm · Oct 10, 2002, 12:50

rex1: Tell the middleman that you understand his or her reluctance to provide a contract and as a compromise you will be happy to accept your fee up front

Seriously, if you want to secure the deal take the next step yourself and provide him or her with a contract. That way, you can eliminate the possibility that the person isn't providing a contract because they are lazy or don't know how.

If someone refuses to accept a reasonable agreement, you have to assume it is because they do not want to have to follow through with an agreement. Why else?

Mike · Oct 10, 2002, 15:27

Yeah, it doesn't look good when someone flat out refuses to make a contract. I'd go for some of the payment upfront, or just ditch the project.

rex1 · Oct 11, 2002, 09:57

Thanx , i just told them that either draw a contract or i'll not do the project . so waiting for a yes or no

ChrisRoss · Oct 11, 2002, 10:01

I won't do a job with out Half up front then the the other half upon completion. I haven't been burned yet..... Knock on wood!

okrogius · Oct 16, 2002, 17:18

Foremostly, inform the company who is now using the design. Also provide some proof (like screenshots of psd files in photoshop)to them that you actually made it.

sajrus · Oct 17, 2002, 16:36

A contract/payment is one thing - other important issues are that your work was copyright protected and that somebody published the work and avails from it without your consent (1), and that there is a third party (the middleman) who claimed authorship of somebody else's intellectual property (2).

These 2 things are offences in my country - in your case you should look up the Copyright Law applying in India.

Cloughie · Oct 20, 2002, 14:22

Always do a proposal and have your client agree to it so you know what is expected from each party and by when.

Always sign a contract based on this agreement.

Always take payment up front.

Keep ya head up and learn from this mistake.

talash · Oct 22, 2002, 00:59

Hi,

Considering your situation and location, i think this is best you can do for this case:

In future, you can do the following:

1. Keep the source files with yourself and may be get a copyright protection done (http://www.whatiscopyright.com)

2. Ask for 50% downpayment or reject the job

3. Ask for progressive payments

4. Save compy of communications for future reference. India now have ecommerce laws (or cyber laws) and email communication is very much treated as a legal communication. This way you can prove that you have worked for him and have not got paid.

If yourself, the middleman and the company all are in India, i think you can even go for some legal action (though it might take a lot of time).

I really hope this kind of problems can be sorted out.

Regards,
Abhishek

Oct 8, 2002, 06:01	#1
nOttY nUt :) Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: India Posts: 399	design..... copied.... what should i do now? Hi. Just 2 months back, I got an order to make the design of a site belonging to a very high profile cosumer goods company based in India. Actually, another person acted as a middleman between me and the company executives. He portrayed to the company officials as if he himself is working on the design. I worked on the design for atleast 4-6 weeks, and then this middleman told me that I was way behind the deadlines and also the company officials have rejected my design. And he told me that he will hire another designer. And to my horrow/shock, I saw my design over there on the company's site... a little bit modified but overall looked exactly similar. I tried to contact the middleman and asked him for the payment atleast for the design part and the time i have devoted to the site. But, to my disappointment, he is refusing to pay me anything. Being a student and a freelancer, he thinks that I will not be able to achieve my objective. I am quite confused. What should I do? I have the original source code for the design. Should I call the company executives? since this a very very large comapany, will they pay attention to my views? what should i do? please help urgently.... thanks notty

Oct 8, 2002, 07:52	#6
Hartmann chown linux:users\ /world Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 6,333	Contracts! Always have a contract... I am setting up a business deal with a friend and we have both agreed to have a contract between us. Most people will feel more comfortable if you offer to have a contract written up. It will save you time, effort, and possibly your butt in the future. __________________ ssegraves [at] gmail.com Boycott BP, Or Not - A Lesson in Distribution stephan \| XMLHttpRequest Basics flickr \| last.fm \| Cogentas, LLC

Oct 9, 2002, 14:31	#7
ChrisRoss SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: MI Posts: 2,535	Your really out of luck. I would contact the company directly, explain what happened. Be sure to make a big deal out of it and get as much info as you can about the company. If you don't get paid at least you can make the middle man look bad or get him fired (if he works for the company). __________________ Golf Outings? OutingCaddy.com Organize - Invite - Create Free website for your golf outing!

Oct 10, 2002, 07:55	#9
Mike SitePoint Genius Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 5,547	Well, if you have the original source files..... Just put up a site with your design that you made. You did make it after all. Then contact them saying that their design is a rip off of yours, and that you can prove it. Unless you gave the middle man the .psd's or whatever the format of your editor is, you're the only one with them. __________________ Mike It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

Oct 10, 2002, 12:50	#11
samsm SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 5,024	rex1: Tell the middleman that you understand his or her reluctance to provide a contract and as a compromise you will be happy to accept your fee up front Seriously, if you want to secure the deal take the next step yourself and provide him or her with a contract. That way, you can eliminate the possibility that the person isn't providing a contract because they are lazy or don't know how. If someone refuses to accept a reasonable agreement, you have to assume it is because they do not want to have to follow through with an agreement. Why else? __________________ Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

Oct 8, 2002, 06:36	#2
watl1 SitePoint Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 21	Did you have a contract in place before you started designing the site? Louise

Oct 8, 2002, 06:49	#4
watl1 SitePoint Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 21	Ok...well I won't pretend to be a lawyer but I'm not sure that there is a great deal you can do about it now, except phone the company in question and politely ask them to close the site. See the following articles for more info: [URL=http://www.ecommercebase.com/article/35] http://www.ecommercebase.com/article/504 Hope this is of help, but hey - at least you know for next time!! Louise

Oct 8, 2002, 06:50	#5
watl1 SitePoint Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 21	This one's quite useful too: http://www.ecommercebase.com/article/504

Oct 10, 2002, 05:43	#8
nOttY nUt :) Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: India Posts: 399	I have now got sufficient contact information of the high profile executives in the company, and would be sending them an email telling them the truth behind all this ****. I just hope, the company executives ask that idiot for an answer. Manpreet

Oct 10, 2002, 10:24	#10
rex1 SitePoint Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5	The same is happenning with me also . I have been told by company executives and there's a middleman . Though i don't know whether he is posing that he's doing the design . The executives have asked me (through the middleman) to make the whole site and then they'll pay me the money . I asked them to draw up a contract but they've refused . What should I do ?

Oct 10, 2002, 15:27	#12
Mike SitePoint Genius Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 5,547	Yeah, it doesn't look good when someone flat out refuses to make a contract. I'd go for some of the payment upfront, or just ditch the project. __________________ Mike It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

Oct 11, 2002, 09:57	#13
rex1 SitePoint Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5	Thanx , i just told them that either draw a contract or i'll not do the project . so waiting for a yes or no

Oct 11, 2002, 10:01	#14
ChrisRoss SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: MI Posts: 2,535	I won't do a job with out Half up front then the the other half upon completion. I haven't been burned yet..... Knock on wood! __________________ Golf Outings? OutingCaddy.com Organize - Invite - Create Free website for your golf outing!

Oct 16, 2002, 17:18	#15
okrogius SitePoint Guru Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: US Posts: 633	Foremostly, inform the company who is now using the design. Also provide some proof (like screenshots of psd files in photoshop)to them that you actually made it.

Oct 17, 2002, 16:36	#16
sajrus SitePoint Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1	A contract/payment is one thing - other important issues are that your work was copyright protected and that somebody published the work and avails from it without your consent (1), and that there is a third party (the middleman) who claimed authorship of somebody else's intellectual property (2). These 2 things are offences in my country - in your case you should look up the Copyright Law applying in India. Last edited by sajrus; Oct 17, 2002 at 16:38..

Oct 20, 2002, 14:22	#17
Cloughie SitePoint Guru Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: England Posts: 587	Always do a proposal and have your client agree to it so you know what is expected from each party and by when. Always sign a contract based on this agreement. Always take payment up front. Keep ya head up and learn from this mistake. __________________ Wannabebig Bodybuilding Wannabebig Bodybuilding Forums - Wanna be bigger and stronger? At Large Nutrition - nutritional supplements

Oct 22, 2002, 00:59	#18
talash SitePoint Addict Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: India Posts: 143	some suggestiona Hi, Considering your situation and location, i think this is best you can do for this case: In future, you can do the following: 1. Keep the source files with yourself and may be get a copyright protection done (http://www.whatiscopyright.com) 2. Ask for 50% downpayment or reject the job 3. Ask for progressive payments 4. Save compy of communications for future reference. India now have ecommerce laws (or cyber laws) and email communication is very much treated as a legal communication. This way you can prove that you have worked for him and have not got paid. If yourself, the middleman and the company all are in India, i think you can even go for some legal action (though it might take a lot of time). I really hope this kind of problems can be sorted out. Regards, Abhishek __________________ My Blog - Business strategy, Usability, India and Ideas Submit2Please.com - Manual directory /article submission Design2Please.com - Hire a full time designer for $1100 /mo.

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