Hackers face life imprisonment

[Herbster]

Hackers face life imprisonment
VNUNet

The US House of Representatives yesterday approved a bill that could put hackers in the slammer for life.

Yesterday's vote, carried by an overwhelming 385 to three, indicated that the Cyber Security Enhancement Act, written up before the crackdown on terrorism began last September, will be rubber stamped all the way.

The bill must go before the Senate to become law, but it is expected to meet with little, if any, opposition. However, as the holiday period for senators includes all of August, the legislation may not be passed until October.

It is not clear how far reaching the bill will be with regard to hackers, as the life imprisonment sentence is for those who put lives at risk through electronic means. Whether this includes minor hacking felonies remains to be seen.

The legislation also grants powers to the US police to tap phone lines and monitor internet traffic without a warrant. Such actions are limited to situations which pose a threat to national security.

The bill is designed to complement the US Patriot Act, brought into force some years ago.

The approval of the Cyber Security Enhancement Act has been criticised by civil liberties groups.

[M. Johansson]

Ah, America. Land of the free, indeed.

[geiger]

Just realize that for people here in the US, one law doesn't make any change in real life. No one really cares.

I'll tell you, it is quite 'free' here. You're not worried about accidentally breaking the law like I was when I went to Europe. At least for me, I never knew WHAT to expect!

[M. Johansson]

Originally posted by geiger
Just realize that for people here in the US, one law doesn't make any change in real life. No one really cares.

I'll tell you, it is quite 'free' here. You're not worried about accidentally breaking the law like I was when I went to Europe. At least for me, I never knew WHAT to expect!

oooh kay.

[geiger]

Guess I got a little off-subject, eh?

Hey, it happens!

[Morris Cornet]

Life in prison for hacking? I was upset at first (I don't hack, but I just thought US gov was gone crazy) But when I see that this is for risking lives.. then I think it is a correct mesure.

Originally posted by geiger
I'll tell you, it is quite 'free' here. You're not worried about accidentally breaking the law like I was when I went to Europe. At least for me, I never knew WHAT to expect!

Hey! You put it too harsh, geiger! Do you think we still live in medieval times here?
Did you think you could legally be captured by some lord storming from a castle and then being sold to an Arab salesman as a slave?

[Morris Cornet]

Originally posted by myself
Life in prison for hacking? I was upset at first (I don't hack, but I just thought US gov was gone crazy) But when I see that this is for risking lives.. then I think it is a correct mesure.

But letting gov officials tap from phone lines without a warrant is criminal. I agree with the civil rights people about that!

[M. Johansson]

Originally posted by Morris Cornet
Life in prison for hacking? I was upset at first (I don't hack, but I just thought US gov was gone crazy) But when I see that this is for risking lives.. then I think it is a correct mesure.

Can you really risk lives by hacking computers? If that is really the case, I think we should evaluate if it's such a good idea to put human lives in the "hands" of computers.

[exhale81]

Originally posted by M. Johansson
Can you really risk lives by hacking computers? If that is really the case, I think we should evaluate if it's such a good idea to put human lives in the "hands" of computers.

Indeed And you would also put some responsibility on the actual developers of the software which isn't bulletproof, but of course companies can't be put to jail!

[M. Johansson]

Originally posted by exhale81

Indeed And you would also put some responsibility on the actual developers of the software which isn't bulletproof, but of course companies can't be put to jail!

Ahahaha! Bugs = Jail. Now, THAT would be a powerful motivator to write good code!

[platinum]

sounds a bit weird
Considering your average "hacker" probably isn't even an adult that can be punished by the law in that case

[geiger]

Platnum, they're not talking about kids. They're talking about things like the other day when some group hacked into the USA Today website and put in a bogus story. Big stuff.

[M. Johansson]

From CNN:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- USA Today's Web page was hacked Thursday night in what a spokesman for the newspaper described as a "prankish and immaturish" act.

Yes, that sounds like an evil, well-plotted plan of terrorism that should definitely be punished by life imprisonment!

[geiger]

I was referring to the large-scale impact. Not the life-threatening state. Anyway, that was probably NOT a bunch of teenagers anyway.

[M. Johansson]

Originally posted by geiger
I was referring to the large-scale impact.

Uh. The fake items were live for 15 minutes.

Anyway, that was probably NOT a bunch of teenagers anyway.

What makes you think that?

[geiger]

Okay you can stop banging up on me. I don't believe I asked for that.

[M. Johansson]

Originally posted by geiger
Okay you can stop banging up on me. I don't believe I asked for that.

I have to be allowed to get back at ya, don't I?

[samsm]

I would expect that hackers could already be charged with anything from vandalism to treason depending on what you catch them doing. I think it's wierd that there's a new law for hackers.

This part is disturbing: The legislation also grants powers to the US police to tap phone lines and monitor internet traffic without a warrant.

They say this will only be used when there is a threat to national security, but if there is indeed evidence to suggest a threat, why couldn't officials simply go to a judge and get a warrant?

Very fishy.

[geiger]

Well, the FBI already monitors the internet. I guess this just broadens the government's range by letting the police do it as well.4

[M. Johansson]

Originally posted by samsm
They say this will only be used when there is a threat to national security, but if there is indeed evidence to suggest a threat, why couldn't officials simply go to a judge and get a warrant?

Very fishy.

They are probably too busy eating donuts to be bothered with warrants.

[johnyboy]

Originally posted by samsm
...this will only be used when there is a threat to national security...

all that sort of thing and using 'terrorism', is an excuse.
it's not the reason for implementing this kind of stuff.

sept 11th was a god send as far as the powers that be are concerned - seemingly justifies this kind of surveilence and intrusion into non-offending people's lives.

the people in power wanted to do this sort of thing long before sept 11th happend, and now they'll be able to (hopefully not but it seems like they can) because of it.

i don't know what geiger's talking about. the u.s. is far worse than a lot of europe on this sort of thing. one exception though unfortunately (for me cause that's where i live) is the uk - we're absolutely surveilance crazy over here. one very insecure government.

[creole]

Originally posted by Morris Cornet

But letting gov officials tap from phone lines without a warrant is criminal. I agree with the civil rights people about that!

How is it criminal if they pass a law that says it's not?

[creole]

Hacking a website is nothing more than vandalism.

What I would consider to be a "large impact" hack would be these virii that immature, arrogant juvenile computer users come up with. Those are HUGE issues when they negatively impact businesses. Can't remember the actual amount but the damage to computers, and lost time due to CodeRed, Klez, I Love You and the Melissa virii and worms is estimated in the billions of dollars.

If someone came to IBM and directly stole $1 billion, do you think they would get off with a slap oin the wrist? Hacking is a serious issue and should be dealt with in the harshest of measures. One of these days, someone will develop an exploit that really WILL screw things up. Think what would happen if someone coded a work that could format a users hard drive. That could cost trillions of dollars!

[samsm]

Originally posted by creole
If someone came to IBM and directly stole $1 billion, do you think they would get off with a slap oin the wrist?

If that person was on the board of directors, sure! Scott free!

Seriously, there is a time and place when police need to tap people's communications or search their belongings. When that time comes, police should have to get a warrent as to reduce the possibility of unlawful search and seizure.

Amendment IV to the US consitution:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Certainly the 4th amendment can be amended but in this case I think it's a huge mistake.

[creole]

Note that I did not mention the wiretapping in my post. I'm undecided on that. The way I look at it, I don't have anything to hide so I'm not worried.