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radman · Jul 14, 2004, 14:04

watsup everyone....
I just saw a clip of some Sun microsystems employee showcasing their operating system project called, "Looking glass".

It completely blew me away.... I have been brain washed by Bill and the rest of the peeps at Microsoft....

seeing what Sun systems is doing is amazing... im so use to microsofts set features that i cant imagine anything else you would want to do... that clip changed everyhting..

with the new OS from Sun you can spin open windows around and write notes on the back.. crazy .. i know...

another OS which was aweosme to check out in the new Mac OS, Tiger... the video confrence feature in iChat that allows to u spk to 3 ppl in the same window is insane...

im so stoked more companies are taking on microsoft... im sure this will force everyone in the market to come out with top notch software...

attached is a few pix of the new 3D OS from sun... wonder what type of PC u gona need to run this OS...

whats your views on alternative OS's?? I have used alot of the linux alternatives but REALLY... its more effort than eaze.. suse, redhat, novel...etc

ps - the wallpaper in the above pix are 3D.. you can move your desktop around "scene" on the wallpaper...

jax502 · Jul 14, 2004, 14:13

pretty impressive

Jeremy W. · Jul 14, 2004, 14:14

Longhorn is a fully 3D environment as well, but in a more complex (and important) way than Looking Glass. Avalon and XAML make the development of these types of interfaces by developers incredibly easy.

Personally, I hate 3D interfaces which require me to move around. I simply see no benefit to me. Why should I 'walk' to a program when I could just click on it? Sure, it's innovative, but is it useful?

I also see the hype over Tiger as pure "Apple Marketing BS" (AMBS). The features that are being touted by Apple were in place in Longhorn's specs ages ago, Apple has mainly oversimplified them and added them to the OS.

Great move for Mac users, but not enough reason to switch.

Personally I love the competition, I love where this stuff is going and I love looking at things like the Longhorn, Tiger and Looking Glass demos. I'm not sure which of the 3 I prefer yet, but I love the deep differences between all 3 now. Very good stuff.

Hartmann · Jul 14, 2004, 14:21

Well, they better get the memory problems solved with Longhorn because the version that I have been running with the 3D stuff eats up more RAM than most games...

Jeremy W. · Jul 14, 2004, 14:23

They haven't gotten anywhere near dealing with performance issues, though I run Longhorn just fine, and several of my friends have it running on P2 400's with 64MB of RAM.

The downgrading of the experience isn't solid yet, and there are definitely issues. But, it's not like anyone's seeing the "2-year out" versions of any other OS, so it's really to be expected. It had better be dealt with (you're not the only one experiencing memory issues), but I know the team members there and they're working hard on that kind of thing (and, from what I hear, the newer builds (like WinHEC's) are more stable anyways).

Hartmann · Jul 14, 2004, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy W.

They haven't gotten anywhere near dealing with performance issues, though I run Longhorn just fine, and several of my friends have it running on P2 400's with 64MB of RAM.

The downgrading of the experience isn't solid yet, and there are definitely issues. But, it's not like anyone's seeing the "2-year out" versions of any other OS, so it's really to be expected. It had better be dealt with (you're not the only one experiencing memory issues), but I know the team members there and they're working hard on that kind of thing (and, from what I hear, the newer builds (like WinHEC's) are more stable anyways).

Yeah, I am hopeful that the OS will be a solid contender. Since it looks like I will be getting a Powerbook here soon I hope to have more insight into each OS and their ins and outs. To me, a lot of problems that I have had with Windows (any version) have been

crap installed by MS that I don't need
Security
Poor use of system resources
Poor Support

From working on a Mac here at work I feel that I can be more productive using a Mac than I can using a PC, but that's just me.

Jeremy W. · Jul 14, 2004, 14:37

Cool, that's great then, you'll love the Tiger improvements, it's a solid upgrade (I really hope they aren't charging for this as well...).

1. Not sure what you mean, though I wouldn't be surprised

2. Oh, I love XP SP2 for this. Huge improvements, and Longhorn'll be even more so. Either way XP SP2 is a huge, huge step in the right direction. I feel comfortable using my WIndows PC again
3. ...?
4. Yeah, I can definitely see that. Most people don't know that when they buy MS products retail they do actually get several free support calls (specifically 2 free "install" calls). Also, you can call in and try and qualify for 'free calls'. Either way, though, I agree, MS's support needs work (and is getting work)

Not trying to defend them here (even though it probably sounds like it). I'm definitely very supportive of MS, but there are definitely some serious issues with some very major portions of their software offering.

radman · Jul 15, 2004, 00:51

Quote:

I also see the hype over Tiger as pure "Apple Marketing BS" (AMBS). The features that are being touted by Apple were in place in Longhorn's specs ages ago, Apple has mainly oversimplified them and added them to the OS.

i agree... but why is longhorn only coming out in 2 years?

I dont have a opinion on the 3D stuff cuz i have never had the chance of using it.. for me its all about breaking microsofts monopoly and giving the users a choice.. forcing the companies to innovate..

also i installed longhorn a few months back.. i didnt have the video drivers and it took ages to start up... i have a decent PC..? maybe i had a very early build...

lookin forward to some new concepts.. im bored out of my skull with XP..

Egor · Jul 15, 2004, 02:43

I have recently made the switch to apple, and have to say I'm loving it. The OS is solid, I have never had any application crash so far. The startup time is impressive, about 1/3 the time of win xp on my amd athlon 1.8ghz 256ram. And the shutdown time is almost instant.

I honestly can't see why people still won't make the switch.

I have Virtual pc on it and have windows running at the same time as OSX in a window (can go fullscreen). You can even drag and drop files between the two OS's.

Longhorn may be good when it comes out, but in 2 years time I am sure apple will put something impressive out as well.

nmcsween · Jul 15, 2004, 04:10

Looking glass is a java desktop meaning it's uncompiled and needs a JVM to use which would grind everything to a slow hault unless they used 10^9999 sparc's running openmosix. The future that I see would be a server like Xfree for better network use and a single widget set. Microsoft has one of these down the single widget set but as for the server they don't also for some reason they use kernel requests for windows's window manager?.......werid

Jeremy W. · Jul 15, 2004, 06:28

radman: new file system, new presentation layer, new security model, new API set, 30% managed code (ie: rewritten), etc. It's essentially a new OS in every way that matters. That takes time to do, especially when you're not just trying to do a new OS, but trying to make new products for it and trying to make sure companies' existing products will (by and large) work on it as well.

radman · Jul 16, 2004, 03:12

Quote:

radman: new file system, new presentation layer, new security model, new API set, 30% managed code (ie: rewritten), etc. It's essentially a new OS in every way that matters. That takes time to do, especially when you're not just trying to do a new OS, but trying to make new products for it and trying to make sure companies' existing products will (by and large) work on it as well.

i fully understand... thanx..

im still learning about different programming languages so i cant talk about the dif platforms benefits..etc

hopefully something special will happend soon in the personal environment world...

is software such as macromedia and adobe more expensive on the Mac platform..? When i can afford a mac im gona give it a shot... i have played with the Mac OS but never owned a machine..

why dooesnt apple make mac os compatible with "IBM" PC's..?

Egor · Jul 16, 2004, 03:52

The prices should be the same for Adobe and Macromedia products.

Hierophant · Jul 16, 2004, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by radman

why dooesnt apple make mac os compatible with "IBM" PC's..?

Because the OS relies on special BIOS software to do what it does in a lot of places. The BIOS on WINTEL machines does not have enough storage space.

radman · Jul 16, 2004, 08:53

i was just joking...

mac would be a very interesting choice but they are to pricey.. look at the WINTEL machine you can build with 15-20k .. thats SAR...

rjahrman · Jul 17, 2004, 22:59

I've actually been pretty happy with XP . . . after I turned off all of the unneccessary system services and cleaned up my start-up programs. The 3 second delay at my bootloader is about 1/3 of the boot time.

Of course, I still use a lot of open source software (the Windows versions) . . . Firefox, Thunderbid, GAIM, etc.

Jul 14, 2004, 14:04	#1
radman SitePoint Addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: South Africa Posts: 304	the future of the desktop... watsup everyone.... I just saw a clip of some Sun microsystems employee showcasing their operating system project called, "Looking glass". It completely blew me away.... I have been brain washed by Bill and the rest of the peeps at Microsoft.... seeing what Sun systems is doing is amazing... im so use to microsofts set features that i cant imagine anything else you would want to do... that clip changed everyhting.. with the new OS from Sun you can spin open windows around and write notes on the back.. crazy .. i know... another OS which was aweosme to check out in the new Mac OS, Tiger... the video confrence feature in iChat that allows to u spk to 3 ppl in the same window is insane... im so stoked more companies are taking on microsoft... im sure this will force everyone in the market to come out with top notch software... attached is a few pix of the new 3D OS from sun... wonder what type of PC u gona need to run this OS... whats your views on alternative OS's?? I have used alot of the linux alternatives but REALLY... its more effort than eaze.. suse, redhat, novel...etc ps - the wallpaper in the above pix are 3D.. you can move your desktop around "scene" on the wallpaper...

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Jul 14, 2004, 14:13	#2
jax502 SitePoint Wizard Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,024	pretty impressive

Jul 14, 2004, 14:14	#3
Jeremy W. 32,817 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 10,496	Longhorn is a fully 3D environment as well, but in a more complex (and important) way than Looking Glass. Avalon and XAML make the development of these types of interfaces by developers incredibly easy. Personally, I hate 3D interfaces which require me to move around. I simply see no benefit to me. Why should I 'walk' to a program when I could just click on it? Sure, it's innovative, but is it useful? I also see the hype over Tiger as pure "Apple Marketing BS" (AMBS). The features that are being touted by Apple were in place in Longhorn's specs ages ago, Apple has mainly oversimplified them and added them to the OS. Great move for Mac users, but not enough reason to switch. Personally I love the competition, I love where this stuff is going and I love looking at things like the Longhorn, Tiger and Looking Glass demos. I'm not sure which of the 3 I prefer yet, but I love the deep differences between all 3 now. Very good stuff.

Jul 14, 2004, 14:21	#4
Hartmann chown linux:users\ /world Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 6,438	Well, they better get the memory problems solved with Longhorn because the version that I have been running with the 3D stuff eats up more RAM than most games...

Jul 14, 2004, 14:23	#5
Jeremy W. 32,817 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 10,496	They haven't gotten anywhere near dealing with performance issues, though I run Longhorn just fine, and several of my friends have it running on P2 400's with 64MB of RAM. The downgrading of the experience isn't solid yet, and there are definitely issues. But, it's not like anyone's seeing the "2-year out" versions of any other OS, so it's really to be expected. It had better be dealt with (you're not the only one experiencing memory issues), but I know the team members there and they're working hard on that kind of thing (and, from what I hear, the newer builds (like WinHEC's) are more stable anyways).

Jul 14, 2004, 14:37	#7
Jeremy W. 32,817 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 10,496	Cool, that's great then, you'll love the Tiger improvements, it's a solid upgrade (I really hope they aren't charging for this as well...). 1. Not sure what you mean, though I wouldn't be surprised 2. Oh, I love XP SP2 for this. Huge improvements, and Longhorn'll be even more so. Either way XP SP2 is a huge, huge step in the right direction. I feel comfortable using my WIndows PC again 3. ...? 4. Yeah, I can definitely see that. Most people don't know that when they buy MS products retail they do actually get several free support calls (specifically 2 free "install" calls). Also, you can call in and try and qualify for 'free calls'. Either way, though, I agree, MS's support needs work (and is getting work) Not trying to defend them here (even though it probably sounds like it). I'm definitely very supportive of MS, but there are definitely some serious issues with some very major portions of their software offering.

Jul 15, 2004, 02:43	#9
Egor Non-Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 8,131	I have recently made the switch to apple, and have to say I'm loving it. The OS is solid, I have never had any application crash so far. The startup time is impressive, about 1/3 the time of win xp on my amd athlon 1.8ghz 256ram. And the shutdown time is almost instant. I honestly can't see why people still won't make the switch. I have Virtual pc on it and have windows running at the same time as OSX in a window (can go fullscreen). You can even drag and drop files between the two OS's. Longhorn may be good when it comes out, but in 2 years time I am sure apple will put something impressive out as well.

Jul 15, 2004, 04:10	#10
nmcsween SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: British Columbia Posts: 88	Looking glass is a java desktop meaning it's uncompiled and needs a JVM to use which would grind everything to a slow hault unless they used 10^9999 sparc's running openmosix. The future that I see would be a server like Xfree for better network use and a single widget set. Microsoft has one of these down the single widget set but as for the server they don't also for some reason they use kernel requests for windows's window manager?.......werid

Jul 15, 2004, 06:28	#11
Jeremy W. 32,817 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 10,496	radman: new file system, new presentation layer, new security model, new API set, 30% managed code (ie: rewritten), etc. It's essentially a new OS in every way that matters. That takes time to do, especially when you're not just trying to do a new OS, but trying to make new products for it and trying to make sure companies' existing products will (by and large) work on it as well.

Jul 16, 2004, 03:52	#13
Egor Non-Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 8,131	The prices should be the same for Adobe and Macromedia products.

Jul 16, 2004, 08:53	#15
radman SitePoint Addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: South Africa Posts: 304	i was just joking... mac would be a very interesting choice but they are to pricey.. look at the WINTEL machine you can build with 15-20k .. thats SAR...

Jul 17, 2004, 22:59	#16
rjahrman SitePoint Enthusiast Join Date: May 2003 Location: Washington, USA Posts: 80	I've actually been pretty happy with XP . . . after I turned off all of the unneccessary system services and cleaned up my start-up programs. The 3 second delay at my bootloader is about 1/3 of the boot time. Of course, I still use a lot of open source software (the Windows versions) . . . Firefox, Thunderbid, GAIM, etc.